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Post by Dionon on Feb 19, 2009 12:27:11 GMT -5
*sigh* It's funny... I agreed with WK in the beginning... but everyone said it was a bad idea, so I put forth an idea that was similar, but had one variance....
Some day huh?
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 19, 2009 12:28:38 GMT -5
Nobody is "easily killed" in a system where you can choose to be KO'd instead of taking any damage... and as I said, you get stones back from Challenges.
I think we've gone through EVERY possible iteration of cost reductions, and none of them work. The VAST majority of the time, you'll be in the right form for the whatever you're trying to do, so getting costs reduced for EVERYTHING is extremely excessive.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 19, 2009 12:31:03 GMT -5
Meh, I only suggested it because you were going to have to buy more actions because of the fact that you have to power 2 forms... No big deal, and losing it is no skin off my nose lol. Paying for everything at the higher level and divying it up is so close to the same as my own idea, I can't help but say yes.
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Post by Kaimontfendo on Feb 21, 2009 12:08:06 GMT -5
I like Dionon's idea in some ways! It's definitely simple. And so long as we assume that transformations still take a panel of "Transformation Time" giving a -1 to a certain form's action isn't terribly different from giving that action a -1 for "Takes time to prepare." (Although there are a number of reasons one could argue that's cheese.)
As far as abilities go, I'd suggest paying full price for the lower ability, and getting a -1 on the higher one. So Banner gets a discount on his Intelligence, and still has to pay full price (1 red stone) for Hulk's Intelligence. No, that doesn't sound right, either.
Perhaps if you paid -1 for the weaker ability (and get Abilities at 1 for free.) So Banner gets most of his abilities for free, but pays full for his Intelligence, and gets Hulk's low Intelligence for free. In many ways, that's not very different from the original rules, except instead of paying half you're paying -1 CL, which in many cases could actually be more than the official rules would make you pay.
Damn! This shouldn't be so difficult! The official rule for Transform Self is really simple, but it's also really bad. Part of the problem is that there are different types of Transform Self. Hulk and the Lizard both have weak but smart alternate forms. Colossus is a brute who gets even more powerful when he turns into metal, but is still mostly the same guy overall. That's not even getting into the "Unlimited Forms" stuff.
On one hand, WildKnight kind of has a point that you'll always choose the right form for the job. In that sense, you may as well not even bother with different forms and just build one character who doesn't have to switch to do what you want. On the other hand, Transformations should take some time, and clearly some comic book characters have them, so we should have rules to reflect that.
Just a semi-random thought I had: How well would it work to use the homebrewed "sidekick/companion" modifier for building an alternate form? Maybe with some sort of cost adjustment?
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Post by Neros on Feb 21, 2009 12:28:23 GMT -5
I would like to note that its zilly to gain a -1 in the weak form (the same reason for paying half).. If you want a ordinary human form with no real special abilities, you would select 1 in them all (except Intelligence and maybe durability).. So that would leave you with a cost of 0 red stones, which is impossible, so you are forced to get abilities at 2..
One of the difference's from Banner/Hulk and Colosus is challenge stones.. Having a alternate personality which actually hates you can be abit bothersome..
Uuuuuuh.... Just reached the end of your post... Thats not a bad idea at all.. Getting a "Alternate Form pool" sounds allot simpler than juggling around discounts and half costs.. So I guess this would be for the weak form?
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Post by Kaimontfendo on Feb 21, 2009 12:46:52 GMT -5
Yeah, probably. It doesn't do much to help people with Unlimited Forms, (They may have to pick up Metamorphosis. ...and all the problems it has.) but it's a start, most Transforming characters only have two forms anyway. And even for some of them, it could still be a nightmare. Colossus is quite capable in his weaker form, and would thus still cost a lot. Similarly, Neither of Emma Frost's forms is so weak as Banner or Doctor Connors.
In a way, I think the idea is even more complex. You pay X stones for a Modifier Number of Y which gives you Z stones to build your other form. On the upside, that only comes into play at character creation time, so it's not one of those things that will slow down the action while the GM has to look up a chart. And it doesn't pull the junk of "these cost half, those cost -1, the other things cost full price..."
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