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Post by Dullahan on Feb 21, 2009 18:07:57 GMT -5
Ok, I've mostly been staying out of the fray here, but I might as well try to do something here. Magic is one of my favorite actions in this game, but one of the most under used I think. People seem to think magic is overpowered, which is not really true. So, I don't think it's neccesary to toss out the magic rules, just clear them up.
Mastery of Magic AN+2 Only fix here is to drop the panel prep time, which then gets added to all of the other magical actions. Now, there's a reason to buy this thing
Sorceries AN+3 Thematic limitations. Each type of sorcery is connected to a specific type of magic, and the sorcerer is limited to that type. While there is some cross over, the different types remain seperate and limited.
Sorcery: Western style magic, elemental based. Fire, water, air and earth types of magic, transformations of self and others. Calling of animals.
Asgardian Sorcery: Nature based magic, imbuement of powers, taming and summoning of animals, storm based powers.
Egyptian Sorcery: Curses(bad luck), blessings(good luck), reviving of dead.
Summoning: AN+3 Leave the same, just explain better
Magical Travel: AN+2 Same as is
Ok, this is rough, but it's a place to start from. Any opinions, yelling, pummeling, that sort of thing?
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Post by Dionon on Feb 22, 2009 0:48:18 GMT -5
Only thing I can think of with this is someone going "Ok... I'll buy Sorcery.... I'll be using the DnD style of magic..." That just throws wide the flood gates and shouts "Abuse me, I've been a bad little action.."
And MoM would still be worthless to take, at least over an AN of 3... "No action may in ANY way go above 6 stones.." Yeah... screw that..
We need to find a way to make Magic Viable, and not either so underpowered no one would use it, or so over powered no one CAN use it without it being banned.
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Post by Dullahan on Feb 22, 2009 1:03:47 GMT -5
Did you forget that all other parts of magic take a panel of prep to use? That includes Sorcery.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 22, 2009 1:17:42 GMT -5
Doesn't matter... when the main action has a hard and fast limit on it... that NEVER goes away... there's really no point...
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Post by malice on Feb 22, 2009 2:01:17 GMT -5
Magical actions as written are pretty good if you know how to use them. I think it gets simultaneously expensive and annoying to buy them, but Magic is one of those things that's all or nothing anyway.
The 6 stone aspect limit isn't that bad if you put more thought and preparation into it than the action requires. Also magical characters who plan on using MoM should take something that keeps them well-protected during that prep panel.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 22, 2009 2:31:49 GMT -5
IMO, There shouldn't be that 6 stone hard limit... Modifiers, Sit Mods and The Intelligence Bonus it tells you to buy should all be able to contribute....
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Post by Dullahan on Feb 22, 2009 2:40:18 GMT -5
Ok, then why would you buy socery at all, since Mastery can do everything sorcery can, with only a few limitations.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 22, 2009 3:42:40 GMT -5
Sorcery can do so much more than Mastery.... Mastery does 4 things...
Blast, Barrier, Sleep and Divination...
Sorcery is a Mastery of Reality...
I'll take number 2 if I'm a power gamer....
All I'm saying is that Marvel made a small error when they said that NO mastery of Magic effect can be over 6 stones....
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Post by Neros on Feb 22, 2009 7:51:17 GMT -5
Cant remember Mastery of Magic having sleep.. But I generally agree with Dionon.. Sorcery is rather overpowered compared to some of the other "standard" magical elements.. Oh, and isent it: No effect of a spell can exceed 6 or something? So you could create a 6 stone spell which works for 1 day (ofcourse thats if you can place 12 stones into the spell ), and if i remember correctly magic ignores normal defense.. A thing I really would like to test is the system I suggested awhile back for magic.. Im pretty sure it needs a fixing, but I've never been able to test it proberbly..
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Post by Dionon on Feb 22, 2009 17:24:19 GMT -5
As far as I understood MoM it's the total can't exceed 6... Pop your system up, let's see what you have.....
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Post by Neros on Feb 23, 2009 13:31:08 GMT -5
This whats been made so far, but as I said, I have never tested so I can't say with how balanced it is.. ====================================
MYSTIC LORE Cost Level = Action Number -1
DESCRIPTION This action shows how much knowledge the character has about magic, mystical energies, beings and everything els that is beyond what we could call normal in this world.
The action works in many cases as general knowledge, but is limited to magic.. It also allows a character to study various aspects of magic.. Like an ancient book of forbidden knowledge or a magical rat he might have found under his bed.
If you are using the Alternative rules for mastery of magic, Mystic Lore should function as a prerequisite to getting the branches of magic (just like Mastery of Magic), which could be voodoo, sorcery, demonology, ect.. These "branches" of magic must be bought separately, and cannot exceed your Mystic Lore action by more than double its AN (If you have Magic Lore at 2, other magical actions cannot be more than 4).
Rules for Action Box: • Intelligence Bonus • Ask relevant question of the GM • Used to study magic • (Insert Specialities)
Specialities include: (feel free to make up your own): Demonology • Nature Magic • Enchantment • Necromancy • Shamanism • Sorcery • Summoning • Voodoo • Witchcraft • Forbidden knowledge • Ancient History • Arcane Text • Divine Influences • Natural Leylines ================
MASTERY OF MAGIC/"NAME OF BRANCH" Cost Level = Action Number + Options
DESCRIPTION This is the basic ability to manipulate magical energies for a variety of small effects... As with Mastery of Elements, all your effects should be related to your branch of Magic. Use the Options below to construct your branch of magic, note however, that there might be two version of the Branch you wish to create.. For example, if you want to create Nature magic, one might have Commune with Nature, Force Blast and Transform self, while another could have Herbalism, Transform others at range and Commune with Nature.
Manipulation of Magic: These are all the minor spells, effects, etc., that magicians in books (including comic books) are able to achieve with little or no effort. It is used to manipulate energy into shapes, effects and other materials — create ice sculptures,
make fire (or fireworks), blow smoke rings and the like.
OPTIONS • Magical Barrier (+1 to Cost Level): A specific example of Manipulation of Magic that you may use quite frequently. You may describe your barrier however you wish. Stones spent = effect. If you make a 3-stone wall of ice, it will take 3 red stone for somebody to overcome its Resistance. (And if you made it out of flame, then people would take flame damage if they tried to come through it.) Stones spent for Duration or Range don’t count towards effect. Like Force Field, but without double defensive stones. • Magic Blast (+1 to Cost Level): Force Blast of raw, magical energy at Range: 3 • Illusion/Prestidigitation (+1 to Cost Level):Stones vs. Intelligence (area effect). • Scrying (+1 to Cost Level): Find direction or exact location of specific people/objects, or simply spy on them (Magical Defense will add Resistance to this). Gain Situational Bonus if you use a scrying device/method (crystal ball, scrying pool, tarot cards, tea leaves, entrails, etc.) • Sleep (+2 to Cost Level): Stones vs. Intelligence + Mental Defense. May not be used in combat. Duration: 5 minutes/stone of “damage.” • Stun (+1 to Cost Level): Stones vs. Durability. May be used in combat. Duration: 1 Panel/stone of “damage.” • Curse (+2 to Cost Level): Afflict target with Bad Luck (Spend stones on duration row). “Modifier Number” is equal to stones spent in effect. • Luck (+2 to Cost Level): Grant target Good Luck for (Spend stones on duration row). “Modifier Number” is equal to stones spent in the effect. • Turn Others Into Beasts (+3 to Cost Level): Stones vs. Durability + Magical Defense; Duration = 5 minutes/stone of damage. • Fear (+2 to Cost Level): As the Fear Action. • Herbalism (+1 to Cost Level): By evoking magical properties of herbs you are able grant target various effects. Before these effects can be given, the character will need the right herbs and time to give them. If the character has the right herbs and they are ready for use, it will take a hour for them to start working.. If the herbs are not ready, but the character has them it will take 2 hours for them to be able to grant their effect.. If the character doesn’t have the herbs, he must gather them and prepare them, which could take a week (at GMs discretion). The effects, however, will wear off faster if the patient lives a unhealthy lifestyle (Taking drugs, constantly eating junk food, ect..).. The effects which are aviable is: - Fast Healing Modifier: Duration is 1 day/stone spent - Increased Energy: Increase a targets energy up to half you’re AN (round down).. Durations is 1 day/per targets Durability. - Decrease Energy: Decrease a targets maximum energy pool upto you AN.. Duration is Stones spend vs Targets Durability where the damage is the number of days the effect will last.. If the target has a healing factor, the duration will be turned into hours instead and each "level" of healing factor will substract 1 stone of Duration. • Potions (+1 to Cost Level): Love, sleep, control and more. Stones vs. appropriate Ability. Spend seperate stones for duration. Like herbalism, this takes time to prepare. • Commune With Nature/Entities/Demons (+1w): Can communicate with the forces of nature, Demons from Hell or what might be appropriate for the branch of magic you have, be they beasts, birds or even some wise trees.. This allows you to combine this with your Social Skills.. • Weakness (+1 to Cost Level): A curse which can cause the victim to suffer from inexplicable loss of energy. Requires 1 Panel to prepare. Stones of effects vs. Durability. The victim loses the use of one red stone of energy for every stone of damage. (e.g., 5 stones vs. 3 Durability makes 2 red stones sick and weakened, and will not regenerate until the victim recovers.) Range: 2, Duration = 1 hour of “Damage” • Accumulate Energy (+2 to Cost Level): Add energy to a proposed effect each Panel (storing the stones in your Mastery Action Box), then unleash it all at once. For each additional multiple of AN (round up) you will be stunned for 1 Panel. • Necromancy: May purchase any Mastery of Death Options (but not Mastery of Elements Options) for Mastery of Magic. • Love Charm (+1 to Cost Level): Stones of effect vs. Intelligence for success. Stones of “damage” determine initial duration (on the D&R Chart). Stones may be added subsequently for additional duration. The Enchanted Kiss used by the Enchantress is an example of a Love Charm. • Transform Others at Range (+3 to Cost Level): Into just about anything you want. Stones of effect vs. Durability. Duration = stones of “damage” on the D&R chart • Transform Self (+2 to Cost Level): May assume the form of any existing creature or object which fits you magic branch. Intelligence, Mental Defense, Magical Defense do not change. Difficulty/Resistance = Durability or Hardness of creature or object you are changing into. Duration is at will and the change takes a panel. • More or less any action or Modifier can be linked to your magical Action giving it a -1 discount (at GMs discretion), however, this will make the Action take a panel to prepare and prevent it cant be more than double your Mystic Knowledge Action. * NOTE: Magical Travel and Summoning cannot gain the discount.. Magical Travel already takes a panel and Summoning (if you go with the revised version here) also takes a panel..
Rules for Action Box: • Manipulation of Magic • Insert options to create a branch of magic • Spends stones for effect, duration and range unless otherwise specified
The following Actions and Modifiers are not included as Options for Mastery of Magic, but may be bought at a discount of -1 to Cost Level if magical in nature, which then makes it require a panel to prepare: Clairvoyance, Healing (Magical), Hex-Spheres, Metamorphosis, Shape Shifting, Telekinesis, Telepathy (Mesmerism), Transform Self
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Post by malice on Feb 23, 2009 14:55:47 GMT -5
No offense Neros, but your system is unmanageably massive, clumsy, and expensive. As far as I understood MoM it's the total can't exceed 6... Pop your system up, let's see what you have..... ...which is why you think the action sucks. It's not total though, it means you can never go above 6 on the D&R. So you could create an Area 6, 6-stone attack that lasts for duration 6. Heheh Translation: a 200' diameter death zone that lasts for several days (10-15 thousand panels). The REAL problem with Mastery of Magic is this: While you could suspend someone you hated in the air and make them take 6 damage every panel for several days, you would be completely foiled if they had a 4 stone modifier: Magical Defense 6
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 23, 2009 16:45:36 GMT -5
You're both wrong. The net effect could never be greater than 6. Effect = damage.
You could make an Area 10, Range 10 attack if you wanted... so long as it didn't do more than 6 Effect.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 23, 2009 17:58:46 GMT -5
Uh..... That's not what Mastery of Magic says... It says "No Effect of Mastery of Magic may use more than 6 stones including Bonuses and Modifiers unless otherwise specified" Effect isn't Damage... Damage is Damage... Effect is the whole enchilada. The entire spell.
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Post by malice on Feb 23, 2009 18:00:33 GMT -5
WK's got it right. Although the definition of "effect" is broader, "damage" is pretty close to the MURPG catch-all definition of "effect". Magical Defense 6 still screws the Master of the Magic over. Uh..... That's not what Mastery of Magic says... It says "No Effect of Mastery of Magic may use more than 6 stones including Bonuses and Modifiers unless otherwise specified" Effect isn't Damage... Damage is Damage... Effect is the whole enchilada. The entire spell. "Effect" actually means stones of effort to compare against any resistance... or defense... your target might have. In the case of attacks, attack and damage are the same in MURPG so you can only ever cause 6 stones of damage in a panel with Mastery of Magic assuming a defensless target. It even says "These stones don't count towards effect" in the Duration, Range, and Area sections. Sorry dude, Mastery of Magic isn't as terrible as you want it to be.
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