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Post by WildKnight on Jun 7, 2009 18:39:18 GMT -5
Well, see, my personal belief is that Phase Shift making you totally immune to all attacks is pure cheese anyway. As with so many other things... I get that it reflects the comic books, but its just not balanced or fun.
Phase Shift + Magic or Telepathy = whole world of BS
Personally I think that Phase Shift stones should just count as "automatic defense" (meaning you can spend stones for that wall you're trying to phase through or whatever, and those stones also automatically count as defense vs. any attacks you might happen to encounter). Obviously, players could always spend MORE stones than any material hardness they wanted or needed to phase through, for the purpose of being resistant/immune to attack.
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 7, 2009 18:58:26 GMT -5
I've thought of that already, WK, but it doesn't pan out. It breaks down mechanically and logically.
Mechanically, all you're getting is stones = defense, which ANY Action can give you. In exchange, you can't attack opponents? That sucks. (Though in theory we could allow attacks again, if you argue that you aren't phased constantly for the whole panel; actually, that's the same sort of argument I make about force fields.)
And the main problem is that logically, it's hard to explain how someone with 4 stones of Phasing can phase through a lead wall but still be killed by a bullet. I know sometimes you just have to pitch logic out the window, but this is case seems particularly problematic.
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 7, 2009 19:02:40 GMT -5
Well, by the logic that you're not phased the whole panel, it makes perfect sense.
And you're not JUST getting those stones to defense. The action is MUCH more useful than that. You get to walk through walls, sink through floors, etc. Plus, just about every time I've seen this power on a CAD, its had Phase Stun or Phase Attack.
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 7, 2009 19:08:19 GMT -5
I was editing my post with the same idea, but I thought I'd check before I posted it to make sure you weren't saying what I was saying. Which you were. ^__^
But yes, we could also put in a rule where you can choose one of two states when you use Phase Shift: If you phase in and out intermittently throughout the panel, stones played = hardness phased-through AND defense, and you can still make physical attacks. OR, if you phase constantly throughout the entire Page, you can't make physical attacks (perhaps not even telepathy for some reason?) but you're immune to anything with a hardness you can phase through.
Example: Kitty Pryde has Phasing 9. During a fight with let's say the Brotherhood, she puts 6 stones into her action box and chooses to phase intermittently. She gains 6 stones of defense and can move through anything with a hardness less than 7. She can also make attacks, so she puts some stones into Close Combat to fight.
On the next panel she spots Juggernaut barreling down on her. Not taking any chances, she puts 9 stones into Phase Shift and chooses to fully phase for the whole panel. She can't make counter-attacks, but she's totally immune to any attack with an AN of 9 or lower - which happens to include Juggernaught's Unstoppable Action. Juggy passes straight through Kitty, essentially wasting the 15 stones of attack he aimed at her.
(In this case I would absolutely give Kitty the Efficient advantage, but I didn't include that detail since it makes the example needlessly complicated.)
~TWF
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Post by honestiago on Jun 17, 2009 12:31:30 GMT -5
I have a phasing character in one of my games. The biggest limitation on her is obviously the inability to manipulate the material world when phased. Further, since phasing purportedly wreaks havoc on electronics when passed through, none of her phased electronics works. She uses Phase Stun, but the attacks take a long time to take anything out, since they are basically just End Drainers. Offensively, she's not entirely impressive, though, while phased, she naturally is invulnerable.
I like the idea of intermittent phasing, and using the AN in reverse to determine harm from hardness. I agree with WK's assertion that he action's utility is extremely high. But I think TWF's proposal to up the price exponentially balances that out. You can have the intangibility, if you want to pay for it. You'll be putting an awful lot into it, and, as stated, it doesn't make you immune from absolutely anything. Couple the interpretations for hardness, panel rest, and intermittent phasing, and you have a pretty well-balanced power, it looks like.
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Post by honestiago on Jun 21, 2009 8:45:48 GMT -5
What about working Phase Shift with upkeep, plus applying the 2.0 FF principle. Under 1.0, you phase, and it costs you nothing to stay phased for a #/panels=to you AN. Since it allows Flight 1, you also have a movement factor inherent. Why not pay upkeep on it? One stone to phase, then stones to movement thru phasing is a 2 stone upkeep. This requires expending an action to stay phased. The phasing thru substances would then require stone expenditure. You could still pass through materials equal to or less than your AN for free, but anything above sucks energy from your pool.
EXAMPLE: Backlash has Phase Shift 4, and is passing through steel (hardness 6). She pays 1 stone to stay phased, 1 to move at flight 1, plus 2 per panel she is passing through steel. Total cost=4 stones, plus she's tied down to having to use an action to constantly stay phased (not to mention she can't manipulate anything while phased).
The same rule would apply for characters in combat. Example: Rena phases and flies toward the hulking Iron creature, who swings a titanium fist at her, hitting (swooshing through) her. Rena pays 1 stone flight, 1 to stay phased, plus the Titanium Fist, at Hardness 3, sucks an additional 3 energy stones from her reserve pool. She's spent 5 stones just to get there, and we haven't accounted for her second action.
In order to have your phasing give you the same benefits as 1.0 (going in phase for duration=AN in panels, then doing your other actions for free, basically), you'd have to pay the cost of "Free Action, +3CL." A character stacking Free Action with Phase Stun or Attack would be paying out the yinyang for it.
A final note: there are a lot of downsides to phasing. True, you can't be hurt. But you also can't manipulate anything while phased. Second, if phasing wreaks havoc on electronics, you can't use any of your "toys" while phased. This includes your phone or PDA. Third, just because phase attacking and such attacks DUR doesn't mean it's automatic. High DUR foes will still be difficult to take down, even for a phased character. And finally, there are plenty of ways to affect a phased character besides physically. Mental attacks, environmental, molecular (wouldn't microwaves be a particular problem for them? just wondering), emotional, sensory, noxious gases. Plenty of things to worry about, I think.
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