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Post by Neros on Jul 19, 2009 1:13:53 GMT -5
It does.. It really does.. I think it surely is something that should be tried out.. Maybe call it a Absorb Option Template But it still becomes a expensive Toughness unless you buy another option (Costlevel +6 now)... I guess the same thing would go for Energy Defense... If you spend 15w on energy defense, you could either get Energy Defense 10 or with absorbtion, you would get it at 7.. And it wouldent really do anything special compared to the original Energy Defense..
But would'n't Bishop look like this? Energy Defense 7 - absorb energy +3 CL - redirect into Action +1 CL - redirect into pool?? +2 CL
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 19, 2009 8:20:29 GMT -5
I think the Redirect options just make it way too expensive. I think by default it should probably just become an action box that can store some energy. Maybe up to x2 MN.
That way Bishop could have Energy Defense 7 (or higher, depending on stone count; dude is pretty much invulnerable to energy) with Absorb Energy +3 CL. 15+white isn't too bad. I think the ability to soak up energy is worth the extra 3 defense.
Expensive, yes, especially in combination with Toughness, (Toughness 4 + Absorb Energy hits the 15 white mark) but again, in most fights that's like buying an extra Recovery of 4 - possibly more, if you're facing multiple attackers.
~TWF
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Post by Neros on Jul 19, 2009 8:55:28 GMT -5
Yea, they make it expensive, but thats how many Energy absorbers work.. They suck up some energy and fire it back.. If there was no reflection option, how would you then handle Bishop? But if you are still able to soak x2 you're AN/MN, then its VERY much worth the extra costlevels..
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 19, 2009 9:33:28 GMT -5
I think Bishop would have maybe:
Absorb Energy 10 (30 white) - energy defense at AN
Force Blast 7 (3 white) - x2 damage (free Advantage) - only via Absorb Energy -2 CL
~TWF
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Post by Neros on Jul 19, 2009 9:57:58 GMT -5
Ooooh... So the Actions you redirect into gets a discount instead of paying for it? That sounds good... But what if you still can use it without the energy from the absorbtion action? And what about Kinetic Absorbtion and redirection? Would you're strength then only be able to work when you have absorbed energy?
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 19, 2009 12:55:01 GMT -5
Ooooh... So the Actions you redirect into gets a discount instead of paying for it? That sounds good... But what if you still can use it without the energy from the absorbtion action? I guess the idea is that you can use the energy in your box like normal energy - but you can get a discount on an Action if it can ONLY be used with absorbed energy. Someone like Sebastian Shaw or Strong Guy should really have basic Metamorphosis with the "only with Absorbed Energy" disadvantage. So, maybe Shaw has: Toughness 4 (15 white) - absorb kinetic energy +3 CL Metamorphosis 6 (9 white) - rapid metamorphosis +1 CL - only with Absorbed Energy -2 CL Against an unwary opponent he'd probably spend the first panel or so just shifting some stones to defense while his toughness soaks up some energy - then spend that energy into Metamorphosis in the next panel to boost his stats (mostly Strength). Higher Toughness is optional, and some writers depict him as being unable to absorb cutting attacks - that could be represented as some kind of disadvantage to his Toughness ("only blunt force trauma" or something). ~TWF
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Post by Neros on Jul 20, 2009 3:07:41 GMT -5
Aaaah.. Okay.. Like a little bag of extra energy Hmm.. However, the effects with metamorphosis lasts until.... Wait!...... What is the duration of 2.0 metamorphosis? Regarding Shaws version: Wouldent Shaw have a "only Physical improvements" option or something? As far as I know, he is only able to increase his Strength/Durability/Toughness.. He can't sprouted claws, grow scales, wings, ect... But normally it could be all kind of physical damage.. Then there could be a option for only blunt or slashing attacks.. Just a thought Iwant to get out: If you buy Toughness, then give it absorbtion, then later attacked by energy, would You're toughness still help?
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Post by Neros on Feb 12, 2010 4:31:09 GMT -5
*Casts revive* Just tried working on some characters with my players, and they agree with me that this is rather expensive compared to other alternatives for defense.. If you want to be able to absorb energy (not just have defense against it): An +2 With this, you get a power that sucks up energy attacks, but has a limit to itself (2xAN) With Energy defense its: MN +0 And you have a constant defense against energy and will always negate its MN worth of energy attack stones.. For example: You could get Energy Aborbtion at 5, which allows you to soak 10 stones from a energy attack (or attacks in case of multiple attackers ).. But once that limit is reached, Energy Absorbtion won't do anything at all.. Question: it hasn't been mentioned, so does shifting stones to power/boost an action/ability/modifier take one of you're actions? But if you had Energy Defense, you could buy it at 7 which would work all the time.. And if you shifted a couple stones into defense, you would get the same level of protection as with Absorbtion, except better The same goes for Kinetic absorbtion (which was what the character wanted).. Toughness MN +3 : Works against EVERYTHING except touch attacks and certain special powers Kinetic Absorbtion MN+5: Works against kinetic energy ONLY and has a limit to the amount you can soak.. And once that limit is reached, the power won't grant any defense at all.. =========== So what I'm generally thinking is: How about lower the core cost to +1 (Not even sure if and increase the cost on atleast the boost ability/action/modifier option..
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Post by arch2ngel on Feb 12, 2010 5:02:45 GMT -5
Think of it this way: the cost of Energy Defense 10 would be 15w. The cost of Energy Absorption at 5 would be 6w, and allows you to absorb the same amount of Energy as the Energy Defense, though it has a limitation that you have an "ablative" defense (almost). So it costs 3CL less - sounds almost right for what it would cost to get Energy Defense with a Disadvantage of ablative (bleeds off 1r a round). Now add in the +2CL Redirect into Pool option. The cost for the Energy Absorption 5 goes up to 12w. For 3w cheaper than Energy Defense 10, you can not only absorb the same amount of energy, but transfer it all to your own Energy Pool (above your normal maximum!) to use on whatever actions you want to next round! Even if it costs you an action, I'd call it worth it!
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Post by Neros on Feb 12, 2010 9:27:52 GMT -5
Yea, but with Energy Defense 10, no energy attack will ever be able to harm you (or its very, very close to).. With Energy Absorbtion 5, and with no means of getting rid of the energy, you can only absorb 10 stones worth of attack.. As soon as you get that, you will get damage as normal at which point the power won't really do anything... I would at most take Energy Defense at 7 or so and get the last 3 stones from shifted defense.. I think Im trying to say: You actually can't absorb the same amount of energy.. Yes, if you had options (atleast some of them), it becomes useful, but otherwise, I can't see it being worth +2..
And even with the means of spending them, you would constantly have to spend them if you are close to having you're AN filled up.. Or if you use it to boost something, you can only boost it upto you're AN and the boosted stat will only drain away with 1r per panel.. So the character can easily be overcharged if the he is "booster"..
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Post by arch2ngel on Feb 12, 2010 17:34:14 GMT -5
To me, this action is very much like Mastery: it's useless without the options, and was designed to be. The ability to absorb energy doesn't do you ANY good without the ability to do something WITH that energy (as you've pointed out). If you want to be protected from energy attacks, just buy energy defense! But when you add in those options, it becomes VERY potent, especially for the cost!
So let's use your new ranking: Energy Defense 7 costs 6w. Energy Absorption 4 with the Redirect into Pool option costs 9w, but allows you to absorb one more point of energy, AND use that energy. Is that worth 3w extra? You betcha!
With your reduced cost (Energy Absorption at AN+1CL), it would cost 6w for either. Why bother with Energy Defense?
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Post by Neros on Feb 14, 2010 15:03:39 GMT -5
I think the "Move into Energy pool" is good.. Even though it would be limited to you're AN each panel.. But in my mind, the boost Ability isn't.. This is just an example.. Lets say you have Energy Absorbtion at 5 and can redirect into you're Strength.. First Panel: Someone hits you with a 5 stone energy attack.. You absorb it and throw it into you're Strength.. Second Panel, you are hit by 5 stones again.. You redirect 1 stone into you're Strength (I guess you can only boost it upto you're AN). Third Panel: You are hit by another 5 stone attack and again, you direct 1 into you're strength.. At this point you have 8 stones absorbed in you're Action Box.. If you get hit again, you will only be able to negate 3 stones, and next 1 stone and so forth.. So I would say thats why you should bother with Energy Defense.. The first can be overloaded and lose its defensive usefulness.. And below is a reason to bother with Energy Absorbtion Energy Absorbtion CAN be used without options.. In my real life test game, i tried making a blaster.. He has no options in Energy Absorbtion, but when he has energy absorbed, he gains all kinds of bonuses.. Like a Healing Factor, Flight, 3xDamage on his blast.. I gave them the "Only in conjunction with _____"... Which became Absorb Energy... Another player tried making someone who had Kinetic Absorbtion and got the boost Strength Option, but it was so expensive and useless compared to Toughness, that we decided to just go with Toughness.. She had it at 4 or so, so she could absorb 8 stones worth of attack and boost her Strength upto 4.. But physical attacks are VERY common, so she would lose that defensive aspect of it very fast but keep her Strength boosted by 4... Which isn't much if you can't defend your'self
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Post by arch2ngel on Feb 14, 2010 17:02:48 GMT -5
Well, first of all, "Only Works in Conjunction With" doesn't negate the need for an Option, though the Option in question (Redirect to an Action) gives a -2CL to the cost of the action that requires energy only from Energy Absorption, so it's pretty impressive for +1CL.
Also, I'd say that boosting Strength could be DAMN useful, IF it's taken with Redirect to Energy Pool (Redirect to Ability is only +1CL, after all). So now, you not only get improved Strength, but the enemy is paying for your energy to pump into that Strength (AND Close Combat, if they're hitting for that much!) Can you be overloaded? You betcha, but then, that's why you get 2x rank of absorption - it'll probably take multiple people attacking, and that fits comics pretty well, too ("hit him with everything you've got! we're got to overload his power!")
By the way, I took another look at it - Redirecting takes place at the beginning of a page, and doesn't cost an action - so you're not even spending an action to do it!
It's a brutal power, insanely useful, and well worth the AN+2CL+Options (in my opinion), which was my initial argument.
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Post by arch2ngel on Feb 14, 2010 17:08:54 GMT -5
Oh, and just for grins and giggles:
Energy Absorption: 4 (Redirect into Pool, Enhanse Strength, Absorb Kinetic Energy)
would cost 15w - for the ability to absorb up to an 8 hit, first hit can get your Strength up to 4, with any additional energy absorbed being used to power an attack using that Strength next panel! And subsequent pages would require only 1 stone to maintain the Strength, with the rest going toward powering the Strength (and Close Combat, if they're hitting for close to maximum!) Hella potent for 15w...
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Post by Neros on Feb 15, 2010 2:25:43 GMT -5
Only Conjunction... Well it does.. Because since he would gain powers (flight, healing factors, ect..) as long as he had energy in his system.. So he would have no reason to spend that energy on something els or he would lose the other benifits.. I get it to 25w Energy Absorbtion +2, redirect into pool +2, Enhance Strength +1, Absorb Kinetic +3.. Total Cl +8 and +4 from Action Number Cl 12.. And a toughness of 8 costs 20w and it work against kinetic/normal attacks and energy and cannot be overloaded.. I agree that its potent, but ONLY if you take the Redirect into Pool option.. Otherwise I would say you should go with Toughness instead and use those 5w stones to increase Strength permantly.. Redirect Into Pool Im not sure if this is how Redirect into pool works, but if you are allowed to redirect ALL stored energy into you're pool (not limited by you're AN), that option would make it really powerful, not to mention a MUST have... As you said, DAMN useful But if its the options that make this power useful, then why not increase the cost of the options and lower the cost of the "core" power?
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