So, perhaps you remember I made a post a while back about a certain superjerk on my team. That problem was resolved, sort of...
But my hero team is looking less like the Avengers and more like the Watchmen, lol. That's fine, I just have to plan stories around this. But lately they've gotten a habit of doing basically whatever they want, regardless of who it might piss off. Yes, more so than before. For instance; they blew up the International Space Station. For no apparent reason, other than it was convenient.
So, clearly, their actions need to have consequences. But how am I supposed to do this? Send the National Guard after them? That seems like a boring story idea... just fight after fight. I had a thought, like maybe they're betrayed next time they're doing a mission... but betrayed by who? I can't get one of them to betray themselves. If I have my character do it, they'll say I'm just being a jerk and forcing something to happen (abusing my GM-ship).
I want their actions to have effects, truly. But it seems that if I do something like send an actual military after them it can only end badly for the story as a whole. I mean, these guys are far more powerful than the Morlocks, so sending them into hiding down there would be pointless.
That's a pickle. Usually when they start doing that, I treat them as Supervillains. I create GM heroes capable of beating them, and set up a story that shows that they are no longer the heroes that they were when they first started. You could do that, however when I end up doing that the game turns into a climactic battle to the death with the Players losing (I'll admit I'm biased and make it my mission to kill party members turned supervillain).
Another idea would be to present Villains worse than them...clearly worse than them, and as a consequence are now treated as heroes by the general public. Even when it's obvious that they plan to conquer the planet. This'll force your superheroes to go back to being heroes as the wold will no longer view them as heroes, and thus have to find someway of getting the villains exposed for the villains they are.
Either way when stuff like this happens it's time to stop looking at the party as heroes, and show them just how far they've fallen.
Depends. If super powered people are common, have a secret government organization go after them. Some powerful team of heroes who want to take them down. That would make things interesting for awhile. Have massive bounties on their heads, basically forcing them to run constantly to stay alive, and also force them to come up wit something clever. This way, they have to think, not just kill things.
He who fights, wins. He who thinks, wins faster.-
Closing your eyes doesn't make the boogeyman go away
I know I tossed my two cents already but I thought back on my actions and realized where I messed up when I had that situation. First as the GM, make it clear they are no longer acting like the heroes they were supposed to be in your campaign. Make it clear that as the GM you plan to make their lives hell until they take responsibility (Go to jail, repair/replace what they've damaged, etc.) Give them a chance to do the right thing, then us the ideas Nightmares and I suggested, depending on which better suit your situation.
If they have relatives or people they care about, have them realize what they've done through them. If that doesn't work, constantly put them in harms way or even kill them. Regardless make it clear it's their actions that have caused these events to occur, and they will continue to occur (Possibly getting worse) until they take responsibility for what they've done.
Post by takewithfood on Jul 12, 2009 16:33:00 GMT -5
Some great ideas already - I especially like the idea about having their relatives and loved ones feel alienated by their public face-heel turn.
But you have to ask yourself: are the players having fun? Do they want to keep straddling the line between hero and villain? Maybe they'll get the most kicks if you send some hero teams after them - but teams that they can reasonably defeat. Maybe they want to become villains.
In the end, GMing is about balancing the group's fun with your own. We GMs usually have expectations about how a game will be played, and when the players take things in their own direction, it's often best to try to follow them.
Making a team of heroes who can give them a good beating may seem like a natural consequence to their actions, but in practice it just might not be any fun for anyone. Players don't like to lose, even when they have it coming - and especially if they feel as though the GM is making them lose.
Post by dorkknight23 on Jul 12, 2009 17:11:04 GMT -5
I might approach this outside of the game at first. Tell the players about what you generally want as the tone of the game and that you can come to some consensus about what being "heroic" means and that their actions in-game should and will have consequences if they keep acting however they like then it A) isn't fun for you to run, and B) you're worried it will impact the general quality of the game. Maybe offer incentives to players who think about minimizing property damage or showing concern for civilians (bonus LOE or something.)
If they change up, I'd generally not worry about any sort of in-game reprisals for fear of making them go back to their Dirty Harry ways, but if they don't... I'd start with having NATO charge them $750 billion for the space station (if someone has crazy wealth, keep increasing the number until its something even they think is unreasonable.) When the heroes can't pay, start hounding them with debt collectors and more trouble. Basically make all their bad decisions come back to haunt them over and over and over again.
Okay, here's what I'm going to do. Next weekend, a bill collector's going to knock on their door. When they send him away (and I know they will... I just hope they don't kill him), I'll have some other minor mission for them to go on. But when they do, they'll be ambushed by a group of bounty hunters hired by NATO.
From there, I don't know what they'll do. If they ignore it and continue as normal, I'm going to have their base foreclosed on (and then fought for, because they aren't going to give it up).
The only thing I'm worred about is this. The guy who actually blew up the ISS is dead now. It's true that the other team members agreed to it and even suggested it, but the button-man is dead. I have a feeling this will lead to a very loud, heated argument which goes along the lines of "he's dead, we shouldn't have to pay for his mistakes and you're a bad GM if we do have to".
Wait he's dead...the player or the character (Man I hope it's the character)?
As for them arguing about having to pay for it. There's a simple solution. THEY DID NOTHING TO STOP IT!!! Just remind them of it, and the fact that it makes them just as guilty, and that should end that. Everytime I've had a player suffer consequences for their actions that usually stopped their complaigning. If they argue that you're being a Bad GM, inform them that being a Bad GM, would be to slap them on the wrists, and face it I think NATO charging them a ridiculous amount of money is the least they'd do to anyone that blew up the ISS.
Post by honestiago on Jul 18, 2009 15:56:38 GMT -5
If they're villains, they're villains. Know the really nice thing about that? Not only do heroes come after you, but so do OTHER VILLAINS. A little turf war against the resources of Mr. Sinister, Doom and/or the Kingpin might suffice (hey--maybe all three want to b*tch-slap the upstarts).
"When devils will the blackest sins put on, they do suggest at first with heavenly shows..."
Post by honestiago on Jul 18, 2009 15:59:28 GMT -5
P.S. Next time they say, "you're a bad GM, if..." ask them how good of role players they are when they can't hold to a heroic code. Don't fall into that trap. If they don't like you in charge, let them run the stupid game (everyone's a critic until they have to do the job).
Jesus I hate players like that.
"When devils will the blackest sins put on, they do suggest at first with heavenly shows..."
Just villainise them. I would say if they are walking down the dark path then tempt them further. Have the government seize there base the next time they leave. Have Fox news report on what they did but blow it waaay out of proportion.
It does not matter if the trigger man is dead. If I am in the car with someone who has drugs on him we both get busted.
Dont justify your action to them just look at them and say sorry but this is whats goin on. If they say you are a bad GM or that you are just punishing them then hint at a darker conspiracy behind there problems. Play on there paranoya. then Get them in a nice sqauble with some real heroic characters. Happens all the time. Hold back a bit just tryign to apprehend them or take them in. Hell even have the NPCs tell them they dont want to hurt them just bring them in for trial.
Then if one of them uses an attack that could justifiably kill someone then bam the NPC gets hit and falls off the roof. Then take em down hard. Charge one of them with involentary mansloughter and the rest as accomplisses. Send em to jail, look em in the Eye and say " So you guys wanna play a game of super powered OZ, or make new characters and show some morals or restraint. "
I have had games go down a dark path before. Sometimes i just kept running cuz hell it was still a fun game. As long as they dont start getting twisted it was cool. But two of my guys continuasly fall to temptation. The first will becoem evil basically if soemone wrongs him to much. For instance he will be captured and talking smack to the kingpin. The kingpin looks at the super strong goon holding him and says. * Bull, be so kind as to rip Mr. Starters arm off should he continue to speak to me.* The player looks at the other and then says in character * You dont have the balls to ruin your new rug you marshmellow fluff looking bastard.*
Soooo the goon rips his arm off...... BAM instant villain is born. He just became evil.
The other just tends to turn bad on his own. So I have to give him soemthing to keep him on the good path. I have tried family and such but the only thing that seems to alwase work is a love interest. A girl freand member of the team. She looks up to him as good and true and so he pretty much is good and true. If he becomes less a hero her love wanes with it. More a hero and she likes him even more. It Actually works very well.
I actually am in somewhat in the same situation. Though, my story evoveld. First it was about fledling heroes trying to make it big, then when they do that, they face temptations... At which point they fell from grace. Don't be affraid to try and change course, It can be fun to be GMing a villain campaign, up to a point.