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Post by Jet on Jul 27, 2009 8:20:00 GMT -5
I dont think it matters at all, if someone must have hechmen, he'll get them anyway and I doubt GM will have problems with it. Think of it as weapons- as long as it exists in real world, you can buy it for cash. What cant be bought in cash in RL (like cyborgs, beam weapons or mutants), then you might need to pay with white stones. Of course, you dont pay separately for ALL of your henchmen, that would be stupid.
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 27, 2009 9:49:39 GMT -5
I don't remember seeing a flat cost for henchmen in the books.. is that what you meant, Rinjo? Maybe having certain levels of wealth can give you a discount on the Henchmen modifier. -1 CL if you have at least Wealth 4 (millionaire) or -2 CL if you have at least Wealth 7 (billionaire). If you're a hundredaire, like me, you have to find some other way of justifying Henchmen. ^__^ I'm thinking maybe MN+4 CL? The actual cost would need some playtesting.. And it would follow the same table from Duplicate Self: MN | Henchmen | Group Bonus | 1 | 2 | +1 | 2 | 4 | +2 | 3 | 8 | +3 | 4 | 16 | +4 | 5 | 32 | +5 | 6 | 64 | +6 | 7 | 128 | +7 | 8 | 256 | +8 | 9 | 512 | +9 | 10 | 1024 | +10 |
CADs would be 10 stones, no challenges. With some options: * For +1 CL, you can add +5 stones to the Henchmen CAD * maybe for each +1 CL you can make a different CAD and divide your total number of henchmen among the different types (some might be "archer" types, some might be close combat tanks, etc) * -1 CL if you have Wealth 4 or higher * -2 CL if you have Wealth 7 or higher 10 stones may not seem like much, but it's actually plenty enough for a fit, well-trained soldier. A sample 10 stone CAD might look like: They would be able to sustain 4-5 stone ranged or close combat attacks for several panels without being fatigued, and that's before their group bonus. That's pretty decent. I threw in Healing so that they can do first aid on each other after a battle to bring their numbers back up. For big, tough goons, drop Social Skills to 1 and up Strength by 1. If you add in a couple CLs you could give them slightly better stats, a little Toughness, and maybe even a super Action like a Force Blast instead of Ranged Combat (and perhaps even just AN 1 Flight) and presto, you have cyborg attack drones. lol At high MNs, the discounts from Wealth will pay for some/all of your Wealth, but I don't see this as a huge problem.. yet, anyway. ^__^ The inherent downside of henchmen is that they're difficult to transport (buying teleportation would be a huge help) and it sucks when they get captured/arrested (so don't tell them anything important). Thoughts? ~TWF
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Post by jawbone on Jul 27, 2009 23:11:44 GMT -5
Takewithfood, this is brilliant. One of my games is going to have an instance of zombies, and this is a darn near perfect idea to implement that.
I've got some ideas. I'm thinking there should be other bonuses or something else that is effected by the number of henchmen besides flat number bonuses. Like, if there are a certain amount of henchmen, they can do a special attack, or if they lose x amount of their fellow henchmen, the rest of them flee. I'm also thinking of a squad leader that is a tad better than everyone else, and could also give the fellow henchman extra bonuses. However, if the leader gets offed, the group suffer negatives, or just flat out give up.
My zombie idea will incorporate the amount of zombies getting an unstoppable modifier based on their number too. I'm getting so many awesome ideas thanks to this thread.
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Post by Neros on Jul 28, 2009 1:31:42 GMT -5
Now look what you have done TwF.. You're giving him ideas.. Shame on you Im not sure about giving discounts.. I think there should be some kind of disadvantage when you get them or it will make people select them just because they are there... Like, why not have telepathy, telekinesis and force field since they give each other a discount... Or animal senses and reflexive dodge? Flight and masteries? But its a good idea that generally, the henchmen can be no more than 10w.. Its enough to create a well rounded henchmen.. And making a "Super Soldier" option sounds like a good idea.. And as stated, the drawback to these henchmen, is the more you have, the less easy they are to transport.. And I think that a squad leader easily could be represented by a different CAD.. He will likely have Leadership, and giving yourself bonus stones like that seems... Funny... (Remeber, they work like one Character)..
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Post by Rinjo on Jul 28, 2009 10:10:38 GMT -5
in the main book a henchman costs 10-20k with an average abilities of 1. I always played it that 10k got you 1 abilities and 20k got you twos...
either way there is a base cost.
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Post by Jet on Jul 28, 2009 10:16:17 GMT -5
Sounds okay, I guess. Just remember, this is their cost for a whole year, if you need them for shorter you can lower the cost approprietly.
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Post by Rinjo on Jul 28, 2009 10:27:29 GMT -5
I suppose... but if you want to hire securioty for a hit or something I would imagine 10k would be starting for a job. That 10-20k represents those followers who are a permanent part of your staff despite the pay. The kind you can belittle and mistreat... like the kingpins goons in ultimate spiderman...
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 28, 2009 11:38:53 GMT -5
Ah, I finally found that entry in the core rule book - you're quite right, Rinjo! I'll have to think about how the two rules would interact, and if mine is even necessary..
~TWF
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Post by Rinjo on Jul 28, 2009 11:46:20 GMT -5
Actually, I like your rule very much. It gives henchman a purpose... Maybe you don't have to necessarily worry about how many someone gets, but more along the lines of what they do. The way you are breaking down bonuses and the like is incredibly helpfull to GM's and those playing villians.
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 28, 2009 12:05:30 GMT -5
Yeah, I think grouping them up is great - I meant that a Modifier might not be necessary if you can just buy people with Wealth. I'll just need to give it some thought to adjust for the idea of flat costs for henchmen.
~TWF
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Post by jawbone on Jul 28, 2009 19:32:27 GMT -5
I noticed that the group henchman is also explained in the Spider-man guide as well, but without the extra options, or ability to buy them yourself. I'm also in agreement that it could probably work as part of a duplication thing, but I'm not sure if you would have to reduce power or something the more times you split yourself. I mean, you get the bonuses for mass number of people, but wasn't Multiple Man's power reduced every time he split himself? I dunno, just something to think about, as my grasp on the mechanics is still fairly basic.
But yeah, the leader could be a separate CAD, but he should probably stick with the mob with all of his doings. He would definitely need leadership, and the size of the mob would have to be reflected by his leadership AN. (For example he would need an AN of 3 in leadership to control a MN 3; 4, or 5 mob, otherwise he can't be a henchman leader.) I mentioned that the mob would probably take negatives or scatter if the leader was taken out, but I'm also thinking that the leader would take a negative if his mob was taken out. Maybe a "Demoralization" penalty? I'm also thinking that, depending on the type/size of mob, they would also have some sort of mental defense bonus. The reason because of this is because of A) Mob mentality is a powerful thing B) Lots of minds. But that kind of bonus would probably only be awarded at maybe MN 3 and above.
Transportation would probably be a big problem as you said, but once more, this could actually help with a leader. Put him in charge of moving your masses left and right. Course, if he fails, getting your minions back might be a bit harder. But if your character was cunning, he could already have his minions stationed at a certain time, and if your character was rich, it wouldn't be hard for him to arrange transportation. As it was mentioned before, the cost of henchmen is a yearly thing, and if you want them for a shorter time, I'm sure the price can be levied some.
Phew, long post. I'm going to take a break.
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 29, 2009 9:34:47 GMT -5
I just checked Spidey's Guide, and you're right! Someone else came up with this idea (or something close to it) already! Darn. I guess great minds and TWF think alike. ^__^
In the Spidey's Guide it doesn't let Henchmen get a bonus to Ranged Combat due to the fact that henchmen have terrible aim, but that's largely accounted for in 2.0 by the changes that have been suggested for Ranged Combat (weapons give Advantages, not free stones), which generally makes Ranged Combat significantly weaker.
I like the concept of mobs scattering when their numbers are decimated, but I think that's just up to the GM, rather than something that should be a hard rule. Nearly all NPCs have a fight-or-flight instinct (sometimes "flight" is literal!), and mobs of henchmen shouldn't be any different. Some soldiers might be die-hards who fight until the bitter end (which isn't always a good thing), while others might be cowardly, or decide that attacking Deadpool with only a billy club and a silly pistol is way above their pay grade.
~TWF
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