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Post by raynorn on Dec 2, 2010 12:53:31 GMT -5
There have been a few funny stories where the astronomy community has developed some new technology - a new telescope, a new way of detecting certain kinds of radiation, or a way to compensate for the atmosphere in some way or another - only to have the military quietly and politely let them know that they developed that same technology 10 years ago (and they only bother to admit that when they know they already have something better). ^__^ And some of what NASA develops gets used by the military anyway. Ah well. ~TWF I am sure that happens all the time. The military develops tech behind a wall of secrecy (for obvious reasons) so they often can't tell NASA even if they wanted to.
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Post by raynorn on Dec 2, 2010 12:58:29 GMT -5
I understand the scientifically curious and the desire to fund all this research, but when we're facing the biggest economic crisis since the Great Depression, I feel awfully stupid when I find out that the NASA budget for this year alone was almost 20 Billion dollars, whereas the National Science Foundation, which produced significantly more in terms of practical value, spent about a quarter of that. Sorry NASA fans, but if it comes down to finding out if there's water on a planet 50 billion light years away, or defending my country, feeding the homeless, or finding practical ways to make alternative energy sources viable... NASA can blow me. If a super virus, super flare*, deep impact, or large scale nuke disaster wipes out human life on Earth before we found value in having large scale space stations and exploration we will feel pretty stupid . . . oh wait, no we won't. *psudoscience alert
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Post by WildKnight on Dec 2, 2010 13:01:41 GMT -5
Okay, so lets say one of those things is going to wipe out Earth and we DO have giant space stations? What then? Humanity continues to exist on space stations even though Earth is gone? How long is that going to last? Is NASA anywhere close to MMFTL (much, much faster-than-light) travel, which is the only way we'll ever actually reach another planet, even if we do find one that might sustain us?
Besides, there are other groups doing this stuff. If private industry weren't all but barred from participating in space exploration, we'd be miles ahead of where we are right now.
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Post by raynorn on Dec 2, 2010 13:06:37 GMT -5
Okay, so lets say one of those things is going to wipe out Earth and we DO have giant space stations? What then? Humanity continues to exist on space stations even though Earth is gone? How long is that going to last? Is NASA anywhere close to MMFTL (much, much faster-than-light) travel, which is the only way we'll ever actually reach another planet, even if we do find one that might sustain us? Besides, there are other groups doing this stuff. If private industry weren't all but barred from participating in space exploration, we'd be miles ahead of where we are right now. We could reach The Moon & Mars pretty easily with slower than light travel with the right tech a station in either location could be self sustaining, & yea I hear you about the private industry thing. Regulate them a bit but by all means let them try it & if it is a dangerous job so be it . . . people know what they are in for.
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Post by takewithfood on Dec 2, 2010 13:09:39 GMT -5
Yes, we definitely need to be more alert about potential impacts and what we can do about them. They do happen, and we have a disturbing number of close calls that the public doesn't even hear about. Usually the scientific community only knows about them a few days in advance anyway, and by then it would be WAAAAY too late to try to do anything about it. (Unless you consider "tequila and whores" to be "doing something about it". Which I'm pretty sure some of you do. Yeah, you know who you are. ^__^)
Plus, there is overlap between astronomy and environmental science. I know that some posters here disbelieve our current climate problems, but for the rest of us: climate science and astronomy are tightly linked.
And there needs to be some consistent funding or you lose a lot of ground. The program at least needs upkeep money or you lose valuable experience. But I don't know what they actually need and how well they spend it. It's hard to spend oodles of money on something you can't even be sure will actually be useful, or that will likely only be useful decades or centuries in the future.
EDIT: If it comes down to space stations vs. extinction, I'll take space stations. Generational ships freak me out, but maybe that's better than nothing, too.
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Dec 2, 2010 13:12:23 GMT -5
Here's something else I don't get... we get to Mars... and then what? We can't live there, and terraforming is another thing we're ages away from having as a real, functioning technology.
(btw, my research, i.e. a quick look on the internet, says it would take 260 days to reach Mars. Can humans even survive that amount of time in space, with the bone degradation and mental health issues involved?)
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Post by Dullahan on Dec 2, 2010 13:15:07 GMT -5
Don't know, we haven't tested in yet.
And that's with current technology. By the time we're ready for something like that, we'll have faster ships. Or, at least we should.
As for terraforming....we don't have to. We can build a base there to live in. It won't be easy, but it's doable. As long as we can grow food and get water, we can live anywhere. We're funny that way.
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Post by raynorn on Dec 2, 2010 13:15:21 GMT -5
Here's something else I don't get... we get to Mars... and then what? We can't live there, and terraforming is another thing we're ages away from having as a real, functioning technology. (btw, my research, i.e. a quick look on the internet, says it would take 260 days to reach Mars. Can humans even survive that amount of time in space, with the bone degradation and mental health issues involved?) Who says we can't live there? We are close to that technology now. Terraforming is right out the window but it is possible to have a closed environment. Bone Degradation and Mental Health issues are things we should work to solve for.
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Post by takewithfood on Dec 2, 2010 13:18:41 GMT -5
We could definitely survive a year or more in space, but we'd need some tech to make it comfortable. Mental health issues are definitely a concern for long trips, which is why I find generational ships so freaky.
We wouldn't necessarily need to terraform Mars. With the right tech, we could try to live indoors, perhaps while the planet terraforms. The fun part about terraformation is that we're already REALLY good at pumping out greenhouse gasses, which is one of the more cumbersome steps. I don't know how much liquid water is over there, though. That feels like a problem to me. If there is a bunch frozen under the soil, they we may be in business. I don't think it'll ever be Earth 2, though. It will be Mars, with its own quirks and everything.
Traveling further into the solar system, or to another system is tricky. Accelerating is actually pretty easy - I think it's slowing down that's hard. Solar sails can get a ship to intense speeds, effectively approaching light speed, but then what? How do you put on the brakes? I guess you could try to abuse some massive body (such as planets) to slow down, but that would take a looong ass time.
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Dec 2, 2010 13:19:10 GMT -5
I... think I'll stay right here on Earth. Claustrophobia and all that.
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Post by WildKnight on Dec 2, 2010 13:20:17 GMT -5
Apparently there's "alien life" in California. And not just in Hollywood.
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Post by takewithfood on Dec 2, 2010 13:28:21 GMT -5
I think the next big breakthrough has to be an efficient way to get into orbit; basically, a new space shuttle that doesn't require boosters. Something they can launch from a plane or whatever. If they can drop the cost to a tiny percentage of what it currently is, we'll be in business again.
I want to see space hotels. I saw a really cool set of blueprints for a space hotel that is basically like something out of Halo. It uses the classic spinning ring design to simulate gravity, and the best feature is the 360 degree pool. Imagine being in a pool that curves all the way around. You can look straight up and see other people on the other side of the ring. So cooool. I want to swim in that. I spend most of my time in a 25m pool, wishing it was 50m. Imagine an infinite length pool! Weeee! It would suck to be a lifeguard, though. Yeesh.
~TWF
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Post by Dullahan on Dec 2, 2010 13:29:07 GMT -5
I'm afraid to ask....
I'm not eager to go to Mars either. There's nothing there that interests me.
If we find life on another planet....you'll have to tie me to a chair to keep me from getting on the first rocket there though.
Studying animals here=awesome
Studying alien animas=so far beyond awesome it' s not even funny.
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Post by takewithfood on Dec 2, 2010 13:32:16 GMT -5
I know! I want to know how similar they are to our stuff. I figure the really basic, primitive forms of life can't be that different. Everyone has to have bacteria and worms, right? And probably plankton. But what about more complex stuff, like fish? Are fish a given? Aaah, so cool.
Imagine the adaptations they might have to the eccentricities of their given planet. Some of our planets (in our system) are so weird.. I can't imagine what else is out there. How would photosynthetic life deal with really long or really short days or years? What about planets that have dramatic shifts in temperature on some sort of cycle? Hybernation? Something else? So cool.
~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Dec 2, 2010 13:53:46 GMT -5
There are 13 people viewing the General Discussion folder right now. I wonder if any of the guests are aliens? Or Feds. lol
We know too much!
~TWF
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