What is the BEST/WORST of the MURPG?

[roxolid]

I should know having GM'd the thing since it came out (or shortly after, at any rate) but I'm currently writing my own house rule document. Have revamped the combat system completely and changed the death spiral/reliance on modifiers to something I'm happy with. I'm not calling it MURPG 2 as no one can agree what should be in, shouldn't be in or whether anyone actually cares about an MURPG 2, rather it's just 'My House rules'.

So I'd like to know peoples best and worst parts of the game and be able to leech off any good ideas to bundle together. I've already written about 5 pages of this stuff and I need to finish off the combat section (mostly done) and get started on changes to powers/actions. I plan to 'fix' (or give my best go at fixing) the confusion about Masteries, and as mentioned, Modifiers are now not as good as they were - in some ways - and better in others.

My main gripe was energy, lack of, and the death spiral, which I concentrated on. It still uses energy, no dice, and a completely changed D&R chart. I also use something called SCALE and RATING.

So, opinions sought. What are the best parts of the MURPG system, the best house rules out there, and the worst parts of the system that need overhauling in your opinion?

(I did dig through for Cwylrics house rules but all links are dead, hence asking in here)

Cheers, Paul

[malice]

Worst:

Energy IS a problem, but I always slowed the death spiral by never letting damage you take affect your maximum energy. Initially this was because my group just overlooked that rule (So we were playing the game better by accident), then when someone pointed it out to me on these boards I said "that's stupid and a terrible way to do things, so I'm ignoring it."

Poorly described abilities. I was going to give an example but it occurred to me referencing past arguments I've had could start new ones. Some options simply don't do anything, or they do nebulous things that require the GM to make shit up on the spot, which he/she's already doing like crazy anyway, so it slows the game down.

Poorly balanced options. "Options" describes anything people buy, and in defense of MURPG this is a problem with every RPG I've ever read. Creating balance without making everything generic is very hard.

So the bad energy recovery system and poorly described abilities.

The best:

I still like the simple energy and effort vs. resistance system. It works. It's so extremely simple and genuinely effective. The things supporting it (like energy recovery and the things you spend energy on) are weak, but the concept is strong. I adore the idea that when I put that money down (stones), something is going to happen. I generally dislike chance, so I love the lack of it.

I love playing a superhero because the system is designed for it rather than because the developers were morons. That isn't to say they weren't morons, but in 3.5 D&D for example, you become superheroic through their failings rather than their efforts. In MURPG you are superheroic because that's the premise. You really are.

MURPG is actually a pretty flexible foundation. You adjust the costs of things and make a few minor tweaks and it becomes a comfortable medium for YOUR new ideas. Making a new action or something is easy, and making a new game that uses the mechanics is easy.

Finally I think the best part of MURPG is this community that sprouted up around it. They've fixed a LOT about the system, and their jury-rigging ends up looking more like a finer original design than a fix. I said it in another thread not too long ago, the work that has been by this community has allowed for a much smoother more functional system. It's faster, it's cleaner, and you don't spend as much time saying "WTF?!?" It's just a shame we can't slap an "official" stamp on it.

[roxolid]

Great points and I agree most of all with the last one about this place. There are few out of print games that see as much support and play as this one, and its thanks to these boards and the people on them.

I'm planning to make all abilities genuinely more useful both in and out of combat. To that end I changed the Difficulty mechanics to include something called Scale and Rating (for want of better phrases. Still writing.) A new D&R chart is taking shape but I'm having to jig numbers about to avoid calculator maths...



The way I'm planning for Abilities and Actions to work is by allowing the character to use them at the stated level on the character sheet, then boost them up to twice that starting level with energy points (and higher, if they want to pay more energy).

Take Spiderman with 5 strength. He will always be able to use 5 strength whether he has energy to spend or not. 5 Strength is his 'scale' and is also the starting 'rating' of his strength score. He can increase the rating by spending energy (up to 10 by spending 5 energy, then 2 point for another +1 rating, 3 points for another +1, 4 points for a further +1 etc).

Simply look at the D&R weight chart, find Spidermans Scale (5 Strength) and multiply by rating (also x5 same as his scale if no energy is spent on increasing it). Without spending any energy at all, Spiderman can lift 5 x 1000lbs, or around 2.5 tons. If his player spends 5 energy, he can lift 10,000lbs (10 Rating x 1000lbs). If he spends a further 2 points (spend is 7 total thus far) he can push that to 11,000lbs. Another 3 energy gets that to 12,000lbs and that's about his limit (apart from the 'Digging Deep' rule I've cooked up, but that's another story...)

Luke Cage is stronger than Spiderman (but not by much) because athough he has the same strength score, he has a slightly higher energy score...

Task resolution is changed too. The GM assigns a Task Scale (1-10) and the starting Difficulty level is the same as the Task Scale. It's then modified by factors like weather, lighting (day, night), distractions, time restraints and so on.

The Task Scale is the question of 'who would normally be able to succeed at this sort of thing?' with 1 being under average human, 2 being average adult, 3 being above average-olympian, 4 being world expert, 5 being superhuman, 6 being metahuman and so on... Difficulty is the same as the Task scale then modified for the task being easier or harder to complete.

Let's say a character tries to climb a wall. The GM rules that the wall is someone that only a World Expert climber could get up - there are few hand grips, it's smooth and sheer. With that in mind the Task Scale is 4 (not quite beyond the best normal human climber, but close).

The Difficulty starts at 4 as well. It's then modified by the fact its raining (+2), dark (+2), and the character is being hunted by guards so he's rushing (+1), for a total of 9 Difficulty. 4 (Scale) times 9 (difficulty) means the target number is 36 to exceed for the task attempt to succeed.

The Character doing the climbing has 3 Agility and 2 Climbing. That makes his Scale a total of 5 and his rating starts at 5 too. Whilst the player won't know exactly how much energy to add to Agility and Climbing, we know that every point of energy he adds to his rating of 5 adds 5 points to his task attempt. To exceed 36 (task Difficulty) he would need to spend 3 energy (that means his Scale would be 5 and his Rating would be 8. 5x8=40. Job Done).

With this system there would be a lot of stuff a character with a sufficiently high score in Ability or Action (or both if they combine) doesn't need to use energy at all in order to succeed at. Spiderman could get up the wall without spending a single energy stone.

It's a little more maths, but pretty basic stuff. These guys are superheroes. The only thing certain things should cost them is time, not energy. Spiderman in the existing game with 6 energy can barely fling a punch after the first round. I've rejigged combat so that characters can always attack and dodge, as can everyone else, and Strong guys no longer splatter everyone else automatically because they have high energy and can spend loads of stones with their 9/10 strength. Hulk shouldn't hit Spiderman very often. When he does, it should hurt, but how often has Spiderman been hit by Hulk?

Modifiers are no longer the game 'breaker' they were in these house rules, but not exactly nerfed either. You can use them without energy, but when you DO use energy, you get a higher benefit than you would from an action. They are still expensive to buy though.

I'll keep writing stuff up, but I'm looking for other peoples house rules to adapt and add. Once its done I'll need a few guinea pig players to GM through a game... *cackle of evil laughter*

So, roll up, roll up, whatcha got in the way of house rules or suggestions people?

[kito]

in my group we changed combat. you said you did something simpler how did u change it?

Wut about Stones for cads? will you system have to change the amount u get for creation?

I always found Armor pen vs Null-armor pen to be a GM discretion have u fix the problem?

As far as the death spiral we kinda adapted where you would lose you red stones normally (in some games) meaning if you had 3w and u took 2dmg you would have 2w 1r left until end of combat. at end of combat any r stone of health you had left would go to your energy pool and you loose 1r stone from you max energy pool for each red stone of health you down. in the few games we do this in it works ok. I dought you want to use the rule but it might give you a idea.

Wut about Vehicle combat are you changing that to? is it getting you task system?

Take Spiderman with 5 strength. He will always be able to use 5 strength whether he has energy to spend or not. 5 Strength is his 'scale' and is also the starting 'rating' of his strength score. He can increase the rating by spending energy (up to 10 by spending 5 energy, then 2 point for another +1 rating, 3 points for another +1, 4 points for a further +1 etc)

Like the sound of this so far seams like a good way to get closer to the STR u want but i spider-man can lift about 2-5 tons(normal) and about 10 tons (Peek) would your system be able to allow such a large difference between average to max lifting?

Any way to make it "kiss" even so far as to have 2 ways to do it for the little kids?

all I got at this time. if i think of more ill post.

[roxolid]

Kito wrote: (my replies in normal text, not italics)

in my group we changed combat. you said you did something simpler how did u change it?

It may *seem* more complicated, but I broke combat down for each combatant into : Initiative, Attack, Defence, Damage, Resistance with Abilities+Actions+Energy stones for each. Then its just a case of comparing someones attack vs opponents defence. If higher, compare damage vs resistance. If damage is higher, the difference between damage/resistance is taken from the characters health point total (see later for health points). Anyone familiar with the old DC Heroes system will instantly see a similarity.

E.g. Spiderman wins initiative and attacks a Ninja with a total of 10 attack vs Ninjas defence of 6. He hits (and the four points difference increase his damage inflicted by 2 points as well). His damage is accuracy of attack (2 points) + strength (5) + energy (he adds 3 points) for a total of 10 vs Ninjas resistance (durability) of 2 + energy stones (none spent in this case). 10-2=8 damage. Ninja only has 8 health anyway so goes down!

Wut about Stones for cads? will you system have to change the amount u get for creation?

40 Stones. Different costs for stats (not as cheap, but they have much better effect now) and will re-cost every action as appropriate (that's the next thing to do). It's still in a draft state but more or less compatible with the CADs from MURPG. If you want different kinds/power levels of character, that can be changed (say power class 1-5, where 1 is street level, 2 is daredevil, hawkeye, 3 is spiderman, Luke Cage, 4 is Thing, Wonder Man, 5 is Silver Surfer, Thor, Hulk, Doctor Strange etc. To find starting stones multiply power level (1-5) by 20 (may need a tweak).

I always found Armor pen vs Null-armor pen to be a GM discretion have u fix the problem?

I'll sort that out when I get to writing out the actions/modifiers. I don't really like stuff that completely bypasses other things and makes them worthless, but will take a look at it in the context of what I'm writing.

As far as the death spiral we kinda adapted where you would lose you red stones normally (in some games) meaning if you had 3w and u took 2dmg you would have 2w 1r left until end of combat. at end of combat any r stone of health you had left would go to your energy pool and you loose 1r stone from you max energy pool for each red stone of health you down. in the few games we do this in it works ok. I dought you want to use the rule but it might give you a idea.

Death spiral is gone. I might add 'conditions' like slammed, staggered or stunned that give negative modifiers to initiative/attack/defence/damage/resistance as appropriate. Using a health point system (kinda like hit points). It's Durability x3 + Strength=health points. Spiderman has 17 Health points (Dur of 4 x3=12, plus 5 strength), Thing has 27. Thor has 28. Hulk has 31. Luke Cage has 20 and so on. At zero, unconscious. At negative value of starting health, character dies (so Spiderman has 17 health points, is Knocked out at 0 and killed at -17). It's really hard to kill a super person, unless its for plot purposes in a comic. And we all know they come back...

Wut about Vehicle combat are you changing that to? is it getting you task system?

Everything will use the task system. Scale multiplies Rating=Task attempt total, and you can increase the rating by spending energy. A skilled person will find it much easier to succeed than someone less skilled, because they have to spend less (or no) energy.

Take Spiderman with 5 strength. He will always be able to use 5 strength whether he has energy to spend or not. 5 Strength is his 'scale' and is also the starting 'rating' of his strength score. He can increase the rating by spending energy (up to 10 by spending 5 energy, then 2 point for another +1 rating, 3 points for another +1, 4 points for a further +1 etc)

Like the sound of this so far seams like a good way to get closer to the STR u want but i spider-man can lift about 2-5 tons(normal) and about 10 tons (Peek) would your system be able to allow such a large difference between average to max lifting?

I have a mechanic called 'Digging Deep'. This gives the player the option of getting a bonus amount of energy equal to their starting value to use in that panel. That isn't as great as it sounds. The more energy you spend, the more expensive it becomes. Even with the extra energy I don't think Spider-Man would be able to lift 10 tons, but I'll have a look at that in a minute (see below). Perhaps the 'Digging Deep' energy stones can be a direct bonus to the rating on a 1 for 1 basis. That'd get spiderman to around 10 tons. I'll think on that, thanks for the note/suggestion. After you dig deep you drop to zero energy for 2 panels afterwards. It's risky, so use it carefully.

Example: Spiderman wants to hold a cable car that has a load of orphans and nuns inside and the cable has snapped. He can lift Strength (Rating 5) x 1000lbs (which is scale 5). Player spends 5 energy to boost rating to 10. That's 10 x 1000lb or just under 5 tons! Not enough! Player spends 5 more points to bump rating up to 12. That's 12,000lbs! Still not enough! Think of the orphans spidey!

He 'digs deep' and finds 12 stones. These, added to the 12 rating he already has boost his Rating by 1 point per 'digging deep' stone. He now has 24 rating, multiplied by 1,000lbs (5 Scale) for 24,000lbs. That works out at.. wait for it... 10.88 tons! He lifts the cable car, saves everyone, then sags, exhausted (on zero energy so he can't use energy to boost ratings) for 2 panels. The Green Goblin swoops in, grabs him with a cable and flies off on the glider, tossing the weakened spiderman through a wall where they have their final battle! (Sound familiar?)

How's that? There's your 10 tons

Any way to make it "kiss" even so far as to have 2 ways to do it for the little kids?

Need to get this finished and play tested before doing anything else. A different D&R scale and lower numbers might help (1-5 with 5 being Hulk, Thor etc 3 being spiderman, 1 being ordinary guy on street). That's more or less a full rewrite of the game, but if there's demand for it...? Who knows. We'll see what people think of this first - I'm sure there are some who will say 'too crunchy' or 'too fiddly' or 'won't work because of...' that;s why it won't be posted up in entirety until its done...

all I got at this time. if i think of more ill post.

No probs. Any other things you can think of, let me know. I am going to change the 'Digging Deep' mechanic as a result of your question...

[UrbanBlue]

Best: It's simple and plays well online.

Worst: This may seem too picky, but I feel like they didn't put enough effort into writing canon characters well. Cyclops is a notable example, but Spider-man's intellect and Venom's stats are there as well.

Energy, of course, is bad too (once again we can look at cyke for an example.)

[Revan]

So far a lot people have mentioned the energy issue, so I'm not gonna go there for the sake of not repeating everything.

I will say that one thing that I do have a problem with is Armor Penetration and how it affects everything unless you have no AP. I always felt like there should be grades of AP and if you didn't have a certain level of AP then you should not be able to pierce certain materials. It's like having a wooden arrow with the AP modifier and being able to shoot through titanium or in one instance, adamantium.

The other issue is how badly force blast is done. For the price of force blast it is infinitely cheaper in the long run to carry a weapon. One fix I proposed was that yo pay for the FB modifier just like you would a weapon and use it in combination with ranged combat. There have been several arguments for and against the idea.

One of the things I do love about the system is its flexibility. You can not play games base on/in the marvel universe but I've also seen the system adapted to many other non-marvel based games. The thing is that you have to establish is that GM's rule the game. You can't have a person that is a stickler for the rules as written with this system, especially when there are a great many times where you need to improvise.

[Jet]

Good:

Flexibility and customization. No other system allows me to easily change so much and accomplish so many things than MURPG. Doesnt matter what kind of setting Im playing, I can use these rules easily. Doesnt work for everything (non-powered games fall short), but its still more then anything else I encountered.

Character creation is absulutely awesome, not quite perfect though.

Works great online.

As mentioned earlier, it feels superheroic. You start with a badass and even if you dont get a single new skill, you will be badass all the way. Even if team isnt balanced, there's still plenty of things to do for everyone. Exactly like I see it in comic books.

Bad:

Character bios are downright bad. Gems include Venom and Cyclops being useless, Thor being so overpowered its not even funny and seriously, who thought giving Apocalypse "unlimited shapeshifting 200 stones" was a good idea?

Item craetion. It works fine, but we had to wait untill third book to get those.

Many, many actions are unbalanced, overpowered or useless. Gems include:
-Overpowered: Magic in general, Healing Factor, Weapon creation, Psi-Weapons, Blasting and few more I cant remember
-Underpowered: Force Blast, Stretching, Transform Self, Duplicate Self (but only at 40ws games, overpowered at higher rates)

Many challanges dont make a lick of sense.

Ugly

Energy is a neat concept, but it was resolved very poorly. No ammount of house rules I used helped the case.

Character creation, as cool as it is, limits players way too often. Hardly anyone can actually make a high-durability character like Thor, Hulk or Thing, but can easily make people who dish out as much damage without it (Captain America, Punishter, Iron Man etc.). And allowing more stones for creation just asks for min-maxers.

[Revan]

Actually, I'm glad playah brought up the subject of min-maxers. These people can absolutely break a game. These are people who intentionally try to break the system and simply overpower everything, often leaving the other pleayers feeling as though what's whte point of playing of the min-maxer is going to one shot everything. You'll then find yourself having to create opponents specifically for the min-maxer or constantly coming up with work arounds. It becomes tedious after an extended period of time and if you go the build opponent route for the min-maxer to face, chances are that opponent can wipe the other players easily.

[roxolid]

I'll try to address how I intend to 'work round' or 'fix' as best as I can, the issues raised:

Energy - If you have an ability/action/modifier on your sheet, you can use it at the stated level at any point, no matter how much energy you have. The SCALE and RATING I mentioned in earlier posts covers this, but it works as follows:

An ability/action/modifiers SCALE is the number listed on the CAD. That determines the level of power or ability that the character has in that area. Someone with a rating of 1 has a below average human scale in that area, someone with 2 has average human, 3 is above average - Olympian, 4 is max normal human etc.

RATING starts the same level as the SCALE, so if you have someone with 7 Strength, they have 7 starting RATING as well when performing a Strength based task. If a Strength task has a target difficulty to beat of 45, a character with Strength 7 can beat it without spending a single energy point, because you multiply SCALE x RATING (in this case 7 x 7 = 49) to see the task attempt number. If it beats the target difficulty number, you succeed.

You can increase RATING by spending energy stones on it. You can increase it to double its starting value by spending 1 energy per 1 rating point gained. You can increase it beyond double its starting value by spending more energy but it gets progressively more expensive.

Example:

Cyclops Force Blast can turn out 9 points of damage every time he uses it. That's the SCALE/Starting RATING of his action. He can spend more energy to increase the rating (and therefore the damage inflicted) up to 18 points (which would exhaust his energy pool). In the normal MURPG game Cyclops fires once at 9 stones then is useless, with 3 stones per panel recovery. Using the modified system, he can spend his recovered 3 stones on blast or something else, but he'll always have his 9 point Blast to call on as a minimum, unless an injury causes it to stop working (being poked in the eye won't help, I should think).

With regards the cost of Force Blast and carrying a gun around instead, sure you can do that. But you can't add energy stones to a guns damage. The only thing that affects how much damage a gun (or other ranged weapon) will inflict is the accuracy of the shot. That will increase your damage.

When attacking you add Agility+Close or Ranged combat+Energy stones. Silver Surfer doesn't have Ranged combat, so he's going to miss a lot just using his Agility, right? No. He can, instead of inflicting damage with his Power Cosmic, choose to add it to attack instead (and in melee characters can add their strength to their attack instead of using it to inflict damage). The problem with this is that you will reduce the damage you inflict by a very large amount, but at least you have a better chance of hitting. For characters like Hulk and Silver Surfer, it's the best option they have.

The mechanic works as follows:

Attackers Attack total compares against Defenders Defence total. If higher, the attack hits. For every 3 points (or part of) that Attack exceeds Defence, an extra 1 point of damage is added. (When attacking we call this Accuracy. Bullseye can use this with incredible effect in this system to to damage with things like playing cards and paper clips. Hawkeye can send a normal arrow into a supposedly bulletproof bad guy by sheer accuracy alone, even when said bad guy normally laughs at bullets)

Then you compare the damage (power, strength, action as appropriate plus energy stones, plus any weapon, and plus accuracy) vs Resistance of the target (Durability against blunt non lethal attacks, Toughness, Force Field, Energy Defence etc, plus energy stones). If the Damage is higher than Resistance, the difference is taken off the characters Health points. (Replaced the White Stones of health with Health point score based on Durability x 3 + Strength).

Example:

For every 3 points (or part of) that an attack exceeds a targets defence, 1 point is added to damage as Accuracy. For this example I will assume Wolverine is at point black range and not moving (I have rules for both, but am keeping this simple for this example)

Cyclops Attacks Wolverine (they fell out. Again.)
To attack, he uses AGILITY (2) + RANGED COMBAT (2) + ENERGY STONES
Now this is pretty hopeless, so he uses his Optic Blast to attack with instead of damage. His attack is now:

AGILITY (2) + RANGED COMBAT (2) + OPTIC BLAST (9) + ENERGY STONES (he throws his full 9 energy in).

Total Attack=22
Any damage that gets through to Wolverine is doubled (x2 damage) which means that although his damaged is effectively divided by 1/3rd by using Optic Blast for Attack instead of damage, he's not too hampered by it.

Wolverine attempts to Dodge
Dodging allows a character to add their Agility or an appropriate action to their Defence at the expense of using Agility or an Action of any kind for their attack.

Wolverines DEFENCE= SPEED (2... hold on. What? 2? Need to redo that CAD... Anyway...)+ AGILITY (4, because he's dodging) + REFLEXIVE DODGE (1) + ENERGY STONES

Modifiers work differently now. Because everything gives 'free stones' effectively they are depowered in one respect. However, you can spend energy stones on them up to their SCALE (1 in the case of Wolverines Reflx. Dodge) and get +2 Rating per energy spent. So when Wolverine spends 1 energy on Reflexive Dodge he gets +2 Defence. He can't spend any more than 1 stone on it (whereas an Action allows you to spend as many stones as you have) but every point counts!

Wolverine then spends 6 Stones to Double his Speed and Agility from 6 to 12, then spends 2 points to add +1, 3 points to add another +1. He's spent 12 of his 15 energy, so without 'Digging Deep' that's his lot (with 3 energy left)

Now his Defence is:

Wolverines DEFENCE= SPEED (2)+ AGILITY (4) + REFLEXIVE DODGE (1) + ENERGY STONES (12 spent, boosts Defence by +10, because 6 went on boosting Agility+Speed, 5 went on an extra boost to Speed/Agility of 2 points, and 1 point went on Reflx Dodge which adds +2 Defence). His total is 17.

Cyclops ATTACK (22) vs Wolverines DEFENCE (17) = 5 difference, which is 2 accuracy. This becomes Cyclops' Damage.

Cyclops DAMAGE (2) vs Wolverines RESISTANCE (Durability 5 vs Blunt non lethal attacks like Cykes Optic Blast).

Because Cyclops used Optic Blast for attack and not damage, he only inflicts damage equal to his accuracy (2). Wolverines' Durability (5) exceeds that so normally it wouldn't get through, but 1 point ALWAYS gets through when only using Durability because of bruising. If Cyclops had a lethal style attack (fire, radiation, cosmic etc) Wolverines Durability wouldn't protect him at all.

The Optic blast does x2 damage, so Wolverines Health points are reduced from 19 to 17.

Cyclops used his maximum attack (without digging deep) and Wolverine used his maximum defence (again, without digging deep) for a grand total of 2 damage. Wolverine is nothing more than bruised and ticked off, and with a SNIKT! "Bub...shouldn't have done that.. I'm the best at what I do... blah blah..." he closes in...

My moneys on the hairy fellow. Using the movement and range modifiers might have meant Cyclops missed completely.

More later when I get home. It might seem very complex and crunchy at first glance, but I am after:

• More Options for the player
  
• More control over a fight rather than attack once at full strength and you are screwed thereafter unless loaded with free stones from modifiers
  
• Situational Modifiers give +1 rating where appropriate, thus saving you an energy stone.
  
• Modifiers are weaker, but give a great boost when you spend energy on them. (Spiderman can spend 3 energy on Reflexive Dodge and get a total of +9 defence (3 from Refl dodge and +2 per energy spent). No wonder he's so hard to hit!)
  
• Characters with higher scores don't need as much energy to accomplish a task as someone with lower scores
  
• You can push beyond your limits to do amazing things, but there is a price to pay (Digging Deep - you add, for that panel, your full energy pool again to your existing points but are on zero energy for 2 panels after. You can only use it once per adventure as well.)
  
• Fix/Clean up certain powers and modifiers - I will take a good hard look at armour penetration. I am sure I can do something with it (even if its just banging up the cost or limiting it) but if not, I'll ditch it. I need to see how it fits in with the changed mechanics.
  
• Get rid of the Death spiral, completely. There will be injuries like stunned, staggered, slammed and dazed, or something along those lines. Depends on how much damage you do and the nature of the attack.
  
• Sort out the imbalance between robots/powered armour and superhumans. Someone could go to town with 40 stones and really knock out a badass robot that makes all other characters in the group feel redundant. That will change.
  
• Try to change things so that min/maxers aren't completely removed, but get less of an outright advantage over someone who just makes a straight up character without digging too deep into options
  

I've done the core mechanic rules (which need a tweak to add degrees of success - for every 3 points or more over target number you gain 1 success. More success=completing task in shorter time or better result) and need to alter the Digging deep rules (I may even drop the energy loss to 3 panels after you dig deep. Will take a look.) Have more or less finished combat. I'll be into actions/modifiers next, starting at A and working my way through. Don't think I will include the Spiderman guide yet, just concentrate on the 3 main books.

I also considered updating every CAD in the book, but that would involve using Marvel Images and art, and we're getting into dodgy territory there. For sure, millions of websites around the world use Marvel Images for free, but putting it into an Electronic document is another thing. It didn't stop the guys with the FASERIP system or the Spiderman guide though.

I'll concentrate on the Draft rules and throw it out for playtesting with certain characters where CADS are updated/explained in full (probably Spiderman and Green Goblin) with the Action/Modifier changes.

Whether anyone uses it or not is up to you guys and how well it turns out. I intend to run a game on here with it, but it's a way off yet.

Right, it's 03.00, time to go to work Trains don't drive themselves in England (but I'm glad of that, because then I'd not get paid...)

[malice]

Feb 7, 2012 18:22:00 GMT -5 Revan said:

Actually, I'm glad playah brought up the subject of min-maxers. These people can absolutely break a game. These are people who intentionally try to break the system and simply overpower everything, often leaving the other pleayers feeling as though what's whte point of playing of the min-maxer is going to one shot everything. You'll then find yourself having to create opponents specifically for the min-maxer or constantly coming up with work arounds. It becomes tedious after an extended period of time and if you go the build opponent route for the min-maxer to face, chances are that opponent can wipe the other players easily.

Much like "poorly balanced options" I see this in every RPG I've ever played. You CAN put your foot down pretty easily if they're such a problem. I've curbed overpowered characters as a GM and as a player.

Feb 7, 2012 16:17:28 GMT -5 UrbanBlue said:

Worst: This may seem too picky, but I feel like they didn't put enough effort into writing canon characters well. Cyclops is a notable example, but Spider-man's intellect and Venom's stats are there as well.

This is another thing I've seen in every other RPG. The write-ups that ship with the games are always terrible, game developers tend to lack talent in their own systems.

I believe the very thing that makes it enjoyable for everyone else is what makes them bad at it, if you create a system that you also master, you have likely created something narrow and unimaginative (Because you were able to do everything in it by yourself). The games, like stories and characters, can take on personalities of their own and escape their creators' grasp. That's what makes other people interested. Eventually it feels like it's designing itself, and you just tried to write it all down fast enough.

[ironfox]

I really like what I'm reading here. Good work! Please keep it up.

I'd add to what has been said about the current Marvel system but I think I'd be repeating a lot of what's already been said.

[ironfox]

Oh, I have a post on this site somewhere detailing my idea for a revamped AP/AP-Null rule.

In my games I've turned AP into a ranked Modifier and I've gotten rid of Nullifies AP altogether.

So you buy AP at MN, let's say 4, you ignore toughness up to MN 4, toughness MN 5 and up is treated as if you didn't have AP.

Wolverine would have AP 9, which would cost 12w, and ignores the toughness of pretty much everyone in the book except for Ultron who is made of Adamenium and has toughness 10.

[roxolid]

That's a good idea. I was thinking (in the context of what I've written so far) that armour piercing reduces the resistance of the target character by the Modifiers Scale, and stops the target spending energy on boosting toughness. Say Wolverine (3 claws) attacks Hulk (7 toughness).

Hulks player can spend 7 energy and get a total of 21 Resistance from his Toughness, making him damn near impregnable save against the heaviest hitters (thor etc) and even then it's gonna take ages to chip away at his health AND he has a healing factor.

Wolverines claws (with AP) reduce this to 4 points and stop Hulk spending energy on his Toughness (unless Hulk has no AP, which cancels AP out). When Wolvy does damage (Str+Claws+Energy+Accuracy of attack) it then compares favourably against Hulk, though his toughness does slow some of that damage down still. He has an inch thick hide. AP as is essentially puts him the same as a human when someone attacks (unless he has no AP of course).

So AP would be effective, still, but less so, and depend on the modifer/action to which it is attached (CL +3? +4?) plus its expensive. But when you want to be the best at what you do, its a cost worth paying, right?

I'll play about with it. Right now, have to go to work

[ironfox]

Feb 6, 2012 20:17:29 GMT -5 roxolid said:

Take Spiderman with 5 strength. He will always be able to use 5 strength whether he has energy to spend or not. 5 Strength is his 'scale' and is also the starting 'rating' of his strength score. He can increase the rating by spending energy (up to 10 by spending 5 energy, then 2 point for another +1 rating, 3 points for another +1, 4 points for a further +1 etc).

Simply look at the D&R weight chart, find Spidermans Scale (5 Strength) and multiply by rating (also x5 same as his scale if no energy is spent on increasing it). Without spending any energy at all, Spiderman can lift 5 x 1000lbs, or around 2.5 tons. If his player spends 5 energy, he can lift 10,000lbs (10 Rating x 1000lbs). If he spends a further 2 points (spend is 7 total thus far) he can push that to 11,000lbs. Another 3 energy gets that to 12,000lbs and that's about his limit (apart from the 'Digging Deep' rule I've cooked up, but that's another story...)

So if a character has Str of 10 (5 tons on the chart) he then multiplies this by his Rating (also 10) and can lift 50 tons without spending stones and an additional 5 tons per energy spent (5 tons x11 = 55 tons, 5x12=60 and so on)?