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Post by omniscient on Dec 25, 2005 14:14:49 GMT -5
WHAT no Kaine ?
*SIGH*
My beef with these write-ups->
Electro
-Can substitute his STR with mastery -Can be short-circuted and/or grounded
Hammerhead
Some sources give his weight 265 lbs others 195lbs Can lift 650lbs -> Str 3 at least once wore exo-skeleton which gave him +2 to Str[to 5]
Kraven: - He has top physical speed of 60 mph -> Spd 3 - He's less skilled in combat than Cap A[7] probably on the level with Daredevil[5] His son[Alyosha] is/was also known as Kraven[has same abilities]
Lizard:
-He can lift over 12 tons -> Str 6 or 7 [I'd give him 6] -the "No 2x Dam from projectiles" is redundant as any toughness grants that automatically against any conventional firearms[mod +4 or less] - He has Accelerated Healing Factor
Madame Web:
-She's a Mutant, not Mutagenic, her Immortality comes from Magical Enchantment. -It's retarded to give her Astral Projection as Option in Telepathy AND Astral Travel as Action, they are the same thing. -Her Psionic powers are well bellow those of Marvel Girl[7], White Queen[8] & Prof X[10]... Probably Telepathy: 4, Astral Projection 7[can bring others] -She only has ability to sense psionic powers or powers that are aligned with "Spider"
V.
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Post by Kaimontfendo on Dec 25, 2005 15:59:13 GMT -5
I don't know enough about a lot of these characters to comment much on their abilities. However, there are a few things I can point out.
1. The No 2x damage option for Lizard's toughness can be redundant depending on how you interpret the rules. And the rule that "Double damage (2x) from firearms or projectile weapons below 4 stones is nullified by Toughness." Is near the back of the book, so a lot of people probably missed it. However, the option can't be completely useless.
2. I think Omniscent is missing a key point about Madame Web's Telepathy.
She doesn't have the Intelligence Bonus!
I haven't seen the X-Men book, But I know Jean Grey has the Intelligence Bonus, which bumps her Telepathy up to an effective 12. Emma Frost and Professor X probably also have the Bonus, which for Xavier probably makes him about an effective 18. Telepathy 4 by itself isn't nearly powerful enough for Madame Web, but at 4 with the bonus, she'd become even more powerful.
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Post by omniscient on Dec 25, 2005 16:27:48 GMT -5
I don't know enough about a lot of these characters to comment much on their abilities. However, there are a few things I can point out. 1. The No 2x damage option for Lizard's toughness can be redundant depending on how you interpret the rules. And the rule that "Double damage (2x) from firearms or projectile weapons below 4 stones is nullified by Toughness." Is near the back of the book, so a lot of people probably missed it. However, the option can't be completely useless. No it's not... With "No x2 dam from Firearms or projectiles" your char ignores the extra damage regardless of the weapon mod... or from "Physical" Force Blasts... Problem is that Lizard shouldn't have it. 2. I think Omniscent is missing a key point about Madame Web's Telepathy. She doesn't have the Intelligence Bonus! I haven't seen the X-Men book, But I know Jean Grey has the Intelligence Bonus, which bumps her Telepathy up to an effective 12. Emma Frost and Professor X probably also have the Bonus, which for Xavier probably makes him about an effective 18. Telepathy 4 by itself isn't nearly powerful enough for Madame Web, but at 4 with the bonus, she'd become even more powerful. *SIGH* I miss nothing... I OMNISCIENT *Jean Gray has Int 5, Telepathy 7... but only 10 energy therefore unless Cyclops pays the extra stone via Leadership she can't use it higher than 10, and it's range would still be limited to AN[7]. * Prof X has Int 7, Telepathy 10... but only 14 stones, therefore limited to 14 stone effect. * Emma Frost has Int 4 , Telepathy 8 and 12 stones and can use her full power. Problem lies in that Madame Web is low-level telepath while Jean, Emma & Charles are depending of the writer of X-Men either Alpha or Omega levels. In this Write-Up Madame Web's Mental Def Is 14[6+8], While Jean & Emma's 12... also her range is greater than Jean's... that's just not right. V.
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Post by dorkknight23 on Dec 25, 2005 16:40:52 GMT -5
*SIGH* I miss nothing... I OMNISCIENT You missed a verb there. You are Omniscient, although you might not necessarily be omniescent. The same thing as being named Faith or Hope. Hubris and a short fuse when people question your assumptions, you have. Omniscience, I'm not so sure. Arrogance won't make you friends, and it won't win you arguments. *Jean Gray has Int 5, Telepathy 7... but only 10 energy therefore unless Cyclops pays the extra stone via Leadership she can't use it higher than 10, and it's range would still be limited to AN[7]. He can't. Leadership can't be used to improve Telepathy or Magic (or, as they put it on page 54 of the core book "May not be used to improve Telepathy or Magic.") I guess that squashes that "knowing everything" thing. DK PS. I also have some issues with some of the write-ups as well, but this is not the way to do it. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
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Post by omniscient on Dec 25, 2005 18:32:08 GMT -5
You missed a verb there. You are Omniscient, although you might not necessarily be omniescent. The same thing as being named Faith or Hope. Hubris and a short fuse when people question your assumptions, you have. Omniscience, I'm not so sure. Arrogance won't make you friends, and it won't win you arguments. No I didn't. I wrote it wrong on purpose, as a joke. The saving Grace of Humour is, that when you fail... nobody's laughing. He can't. Leadership can't be used to improve Telepathy or Magic (or, as they put it on page 54 of the core book "May not be used to improve Telepathy or Magic.") I guess that squashes that "knowing everything" thing. I've memorized all three books, I no longer own them... But yes, you're correct, normally you can't "enhance" Telepathy or Magic through leadership... I chose Cyclops/Jean as example because of their Mental Link, due which I'd allow Cykes to pay the extra stone for her. PS. I also have some issues with some of the write-ups as well, but this is not the way to do it. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I despise flies, so your point is wasted on me. "Arrogance comes with Excellence" - V.
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Post by The Punisher on Dec 25, 2005 18:33:53 GMT -5
Dis.
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Post by rennyn on Dec 25, 2005 18:36:24 GMT -5
“Ego: The fallacy whereby a goose thinks he's a swan”
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Post by OurLadyWar on Dec 25, 2005 18:40:11 GMT -5
Double dis.
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Post by Lord Zack on Dec 25, 2005 18:58:24 GMT -5
Hey, hey, hey, calm down, no flaming. By the way I did the Jester and Jigsaw stats. I go them wrong, but fortunetly they were fixed. So what do you think?
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Post by dorkknight23 on Dec 25, 2005 19:07:21 GMT -5
Hey, hey, hey, calm down, no flaming. By the way I did the Jester and Jigsaw stats. I go them wrong, but fortunetly they were fixed. So what do you think? Seconded. Those stats ended up quite well. Capital job, lordzack. Whoever did Kraven and the Lizard, however, need to straighten up the stats a little: * Kraven Speed should be 3, 4 at most Close and Ranged Combat should be about 5 * Lizard Strength should really be 6 * Frog-Man I don't like the stats here, then again, that may be because I wrote my own. I think Frog-Man works better as a PA character. That's just my opinion. I built it very similarly, and I'm sure it ends up being just as effective in the end (and maybe more effective in terms of stone usage.) But, still some nice stats (I'm dissapointed I didn't win the contest again. I guess there's the next batch, or begging someone for the extra profiles that didn't make the cut.)
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Post by omniscient on Dec 25, 2005 19:37:15 GMT -5
By the way I did the Jester and Jigsaw stats. I go them wrong, but fortunetly they were fixed. So what do you think? Jester I[as there's been at least 2 of them] : - He had this wacky minisub - Probably could use Vehicle Operation Action - Powers wasn't an Inventor all his gear came from The Tinkerer. - the last I heard he's retired. Jigsaw: - His Agility & Speed should be 2 tops as he had normal human reflexes. V.
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Post by tomasina on Dec 26, 2005 16:54:18 GMT -5
We wanted to respond to some of the criticism regarding the latest character pak:
Stats:
Sorry no Kane. This is more Spidey's book and less of a clone book. And most people do want to forget about the clone saga so, while we wanted to include at least Scarlet Spider, we weren't about to go clone crazy.
Electro:
I'm surprised at this suggestion from someone who (apparently) strictly adheres to the benchmark system. We certainly don't feel that Electro can lift 10-25 tons. In fact according to OUR sources the most he can press is about 500 pounds at maximum charge, which, if you go by the benchmarks, places him right where we put him.
The Human Torch can be put out by water, and yet it mentions this fact nowhere in his character profile. Most people have enough common sense to figure out these things.
Frogman:
Yes, powered armor is definitely another way you can write him up. I know because we originally did it ourselves!
We chose to rewrite him though, because the rules for powered armor seemed too complex for what his suit actually does (leaping around and crashing into opponents.) In one of our upcoming Paks we will, however, feature one character write-up with a very basic powered armor suit. (Yes that IS a hint.)
Good point regarding the stone usage; Playability is one of the factors we always tried to keep in mind as we designed the stats for these characters.
P.S. Frogman's Social Skills should be a 1. The 2 was an oversite.
Hammerhead:
In retrospect 265 is probably more accurate since he does have a steel plate in his head. As far as the exoskeleton is concerned, the original MURPG creators did not attempt to list every single piece of equipment that the character ever used. Neither are we.
Jester:
What I said for Hammerhead's exoskeleton applies to the mini-sub. A vehicle Operations action of 4 can replace Technology and Inventing. And yes, we realize he is retired. And Mockingbird is dead. What is your point?
Jigsaw: We disagree. Jigsaw has an extensive history in the Marvel Universe, so we felt he was more than average, though still not an equal to Punisher's Combat abilities.
Kraven:
Considering the fact that his speed and agility have been enhanced to superhuman levels by jungle potions, and comparing him to characters like Spider-Man, Venom, Tigra, Beast, and even Rogue, we felt a speed of 5 was appropriate. Again we do not strictly adhere to the benchmark system. (We don't believe all of these characters can really run at 125 mph either, but they were given a high speed to reflect the fact that they are quick.) If you still disagree I'd say you can lower, but I'd say 4 would be the lowest to go.
You are correct that Kraven is not a match for Captain America, but he is a better fighter than Daredevil and Black Panther. Perhaps a 6 would have been more appropriate score for Close and Ranged Combat.
Lizard:
Why do you feel the need to quote how much he can lift? Spider-Man, at the time of writing could almost lift 10 tons. Did you note the strength that he was given? Lizard's strength is about equal. Once again, we do not adhere strictly to the bench system. Got it? I can see raising it to 6, although I don't agree that it's necessary. But 7 is just nuts. Then again, you were going to allow Electro's strength to be raised to 7, so hell you might as well raise the Lizard's while you're at it! I feel sorry for your players though, assuming you have any.
Not completely redundant. When was the last time you looked at the Iron Man's toughness? As you said yourself his rule only applies to firearms and projectiles that are +4 or under. However, I will concede that this options seems to be reserved only for heavily armored characters (Hulk, Thing, Doom, etc.) so perhaps you have a point there.
Ability to regenerate missing body parts? Yes. Ability to heal back damage like Wolverine? I don't think so.
And last but not least,
Madame Web:
You're correct, she's a mutant. I'm not sure how we missed that.
Right back at you regarding the Astral Travel/Astral Projection point. I think it's retarded to assume to assume that this was done on purpose. Obviously this was an oversight on our part. The Astral Projection should be removed. Unless you're going to lower the Telepathy.
And speaking of that, how would YOUR version of Madame Web have been able to look into Spider-Man's mind to discern his identity? You see, we give a lot of though to little details like that in our character write-ups. And I think most of the fans appreciate it.
Though I don't agree that she should be lowered, if you REALLY want to lower her telepathy, 6 would be the lowest I'd give it. If you take into take into account 2 modifiers (Speaking with her target, and gaining her target's trust) she would still have had the ability to read Spider-Man's mind, as she did at their first meeting.
Regarding your power comparisons: Are you serious? You're comparing her to Professor X, Jean Grey, and White Queen. First, as has already been pointed out she has no intelligence bonus. So, despite their limited energy reserves that's still lower than what any of them.
And despite her high telepathy she's nowhere near as powerful as any of them. Jean Grey has every option in the main book! Professor X and Emma Frost also have a good number of more powerful options. All of them have the ability to control minds, create mental links, project mental bolts, create illusions, among other things. Madame Web can do none of these things. Her telepathy is limited in the sense that she can't really do much with it except use it to read minds, communicate telepathically, heal mental damage, and project her astral self. With this game, you really need to consider the big picture, not just the numbers.
Greater range? Where do you see that? Apparently you haven't memorized those books as well as you thought you did because range is equal to 4 for ALL telepaths, except for special circumstances. The statement that her mental defense should be lower than Jean's is sheer conjecture. We've never seen her in mental battle, but we imagine that she's not easy to control or fool with illusions, due to her age and experience. But though nowhere near as difficult as Professor X, of course. However, if you'd like to see this lowered, I could see lowering it to maybe +6, or +5 at the least.
Regarding her ability to sense only psionic powers aligned to Spider, I'm not sure about that. I've never heard that before.
Now to address a final point: We love to see your constructive criticism; however we don't qualify rude sarcasm the same as constructive criticism. Before you speak next time (and I think I know who you are) you might want to ask yourself the following questions... "How much am I being charged for this publication?" "When there were SEVERAL calls for more volunteers to work on this book, where was I?" and finally "If I can do everything better, then why don't I get up off my lazy ass and write my own book and see how it turns out?"
Sorry, we're fans of the original game, so we're not obligated to be nice in any way to troublemakers.
Nuff said.
-- Thanks to all those who have posted their constructive criticism... we do appreciate it.
- The Unoffical Spider-Man's Guide to New York Developers
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Post by dorkknight23 on Dec 26, 2005 18:44:52 GMT -5
I'd like to apologize just in case any of my criticism was seen as less than constructive. I didn't mean any of it to seem mean-spirited, or even like I expected the stats to be changed, just voicing my own issues. I now feel very embarassed for even speaking up at all.
But, thank you very much for the effort of putting this out. A lot of people, myself included, really appreciate it. I wish I had volunteered to help you guys on the project (I'll admit about the time you were recruiting I considered it, but decided against it, because I was new to the game, and didn't really have the grasp on the rules I do now.)
But, seriously, this is an awesome guide you've been putting together, and I've been waiting on baited breath for each new update. I can't wait to have the entire thing on my computer. So, keep up the good work, and if I have any comments, I'll make sure to keep them as constructive as possible.
DK
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Post by stevie on Dec 26, 2005 20:17:57 GMT -5
On a side note, many moons ago I decided to pick up some spiderman comics to see if I liked em. It was "maximum cloneage".
It may be coincidence, but Ive never paid for a nother spider-comic since:P
Also, DK, I cant quite work out what your embassased about...seemed a pretty wellrounded mix of critical analysis and praise!
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Post by dorkknight23 on Dec 27, 2005 0:34:29 GMT -5
I try to be well-rounded in that regard, it's difficult to tell if you're being too critical (at least I always have that difficulty,) and I thought I'd rather apologize than just assume I wasn't being so. Just putting my hand behind my neck and going "Aww, shucks, I didn't mean it like that..."
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