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Post by l3eta-00a1x on Jul 26, 2010 12:42:28 GMT -5
How does this work? I'm not looking so much for combat (although that's helpful to) but more at going through time, speeding/slowing time, and outright stopping it.
Mastery of Time -Mastery of Extraordinary Scope +3 --A very wide-ranging mastery -Immunity to Effects +2? --You don't age and anything else related to time doesn't affect you. -Transform N/A --You can't -Create/Manipulate +3 --Allows you to slow down/sped up/stop time. No actual time travel involved. -Force Blast +3? --Age things, revert them. A one hit kill for the most part. This would age people/objects until they are dead/broken or turn back the clock to make them babies (or just non-existent)/repair and fix them. -Accumulate +5? --Allows you to travel through time. Any estimates on cost to use would be helpful. -Flight N/A --No discount
I don't have any other books, so takes on those would be appreciated. I'm thinking of making the object effecting part of Force Blast a separate power.
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 26, 2010 13:15:57 GMT -5
You're getting into "I just win" territory - that is, an Action so powerful that it defeats the purpose of playing. Why play when you can just say that you point your finger at someone and turn them into a pile of ash?
I think a Mastery of Time is a great power for a character, but there is no reason to take it to this extreme.
I also see it as a collection of powers rather than one single mastery: Teleportation can be explained as stopping time and moving while everything else is frozen (and there is even a time travel option in one of the books); Immortality seems like a no-brainer. A healing factor could represent a sped-up metabolism, etc. Prescience is also a no-brainer (seeing a few seconds into the future). A force blast seems natural, and I like the way you described it, but there isn't any point in making it an auto-kill.
There is really no reason to involve the Mastery Action at all, unless you really want to.
~TWF
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Post by l3eta-00a1x on Jul 26, 2010 13:37:26 GMT -5
I'm not looking for a Healing Factor or Prescience though, just the ability to move about in time. I'm making this for a specific character, so the problems involved (and his good-nature ) will prevent him from abusing the one-hit kill. I think even Wolverine might have a problem watching someone screaming in agony as their life is advanced until they become little more than a pile of dust. I'd also like to make it more difficult to succeed (due to the power of it) but I can't really think of a way. Plus with the mastery I think you'd get it at least slightly cheaper. It's mainly used to do things like: -Stop time, and wail on enemies (not to much though, that should be an exponential cost if possible (panel 1:1 stone, panel 2:2 stones panel 3:4 stones or more)) -Go back to prevent something from happening (a teammate death, and things like that) -Fix problems (send that broken bridge back in time so it's still new, or wait at the edge of a cliff, and speed up one part until there is a new bridge, revert nuclear fallout to safely traverse areas) -Deal with powerful enemies (Slow down Hulk until he returns to Bruce, which will happen eventually) -Other random things. (Slow down time (slightly) to outrun someone in a race, freeze enemies so you and your teammates can escape, you know, time things) Plus, than it only takes up one slot on the CAD. Finally, it would come with a lot of problems for the character. Like wondering whether something should be changed or not. Dealing with Paradoxes. Whatever else comes his way. It's in an unlimited stone count game (or very high anyway) so it's more for the RP value than anything, I'd just like to know the mechanics. My rants done for now ;D
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 26, 2010 13:48:34 GMT -5
If it's an unlimited stone count game, you're basically talking about freeform RPing. If you have unlimited stones, the rules of the game fly out the window.
EDIT: What I'm saying is, what you have down is as good as anything. I say go for it.
~TWF
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Post by Ziegander on Jul 26, 2010 14:09:32 GMT -5
How does this work? I'm not looking so much for combat (although that's helpful to) but more at going through time, speeding/slowing time, and outright stopping it. Well, the first thing that needs to be suggested is that even though it's Time, which is unusual element for a Mastery, you should still follow the standard rules precedents. That being said let's take a look: Well, the highest precedent is +8 for Mastery of Cosmic Energy, which seems excessive to me, while the next highest is only +3 for Mastery of Energy (normal energy). Of course Crystal's Mastery of Four Elements is also only +3, so maybe Mastery of Energy should cost a little more. As far as Mastery of Time goes, I'd say it's certainly more wide-ranging than Mastery of Four Elements, and possibly more so, or at least on par with Mastery of Energy (which I feel should cost more). A +5 CL modifier for Extraordinary Scope feels appropriate to me for this action. Immunity to Effects simply costs +1 CL as per the standard precedent. Or perhaps, if you did you would cease to exist in any perceivable way? Anyway, it's a pretty good ruling to simply say, "no" in this instance so this is fine. Create? I would go ahead and say that Time cannot be created. Manipulate? Sure, but again, as far as standard precedent is concerned this should only be a +1 CL adjustment. No time travel seems correct here. Now comes the question of how is this applied/how does it work? How much effort should it take to slow down time and what does that mean? How much effort should it take to stop time entirely? The obvious effects are lowered Initiative and Speed, but slowing time must certainly have a much greater impact than that. The question then becomes, can MURPG do a good job representing that impact? I'm not sure where to go beyond that. Force Blast is a +1 CL add on, and it operates in exactly the same way as any other Force Blast, which is to say that it simply deals energy damage if it gets through defense. There's no reason that simply using Time to blast someone would instantly kill them, or actually cause any abnormal effect that Fire doesn't do. You blast them with hostile Time, it rapidly ages the cellular structure. The tougher the cells, the less aging is done. Simple. The +5 CL Advantage "Disables if any Damage occurs" is close to what you're looking for, but still not quite to a killing blow. Perhaps for +6 CL. Accumulate doesn't do anything close to this, so why should it change effects simply because we're using Time as the Mastery element? Time Travel, real Time Travel, is tricky. As an option of Teleportation you can purchase it at +6 to cost level and you use the Duration row of the D&R chart. I'd allow it as a +5 CL option for this Mastery of Time action, but all sorts of things could go wrong for the character. Speaking of things going wrong, I think if I allowed Time Control/Manipulation in a game that I would treat Time as if it were an actual thing, more specifically a rushing river, of enormous magnitude, where the waters constantly run in a circle. Making changes would be difficult at best, requiring overcoming lots of resistance, and because of the cyclical nature of the Time River changes would be next to impossible to make stick (requiring large expenditures of red stones of energy each turn to the point that it would become impossible to maintain for long for any but the most godlike entities).
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Post by l3eta-00a1x on Jul 26, 2010 14:10:26 GMT -5
I think there will still be more than just RP (like beating on baddies), which is why I added the Force Blast. Oh well, I can always just talk to the GM about stuff.
EDIT: Well that is new... Anyway, I only labeled the things as they popped up in the book. So i couldn't actually create time, I just used that name. Same with Accumulate, I just said "it should take a lot of stones, but still be possible *look at book* that's vaguely similar to AE". After all it says to add anything you think is possible, so I just adapted the accumulate rule and put "stones = so much time".
I think I covered the other 2 cost levels with the fact that it's pretty useless unless you get the very cost prohibitive options, so I went with +3.
I put +2, for immune because than you couldn't just get this at 1 with the option instead of immortality.
The cost with Manipulate is most of why I posted this. Really. So don't look at me for answers, or I would've just submitted the concept to GM.
The +6 for Force Blast seems a tad much, but that again this whole thing is "a little much". +6 seems good, and I like the fact that it's energy in your description (a way to make it harder to hit!).
I'm not even going to wonder about accumulate. See note on Manipulate...
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Post by Ziegander on Jul 26, 2010 14:25:09 GMT -5
I put +2, for immune because than you couldn't just get this at 1 with the option instead of immortality. Well, with the +5 CL modifier from Extraordinary Scope, if you get it at 1 with the Immune to Effects option it costs 6w (Immortality + Immunity to Time Blasts and forced Time Travel, etc. Cool!). So, that works. Like I said, the costs should follow precedent. So Manipulate should just cost +1. Now, what exactly that allows you to do, and how it works... well, that's hard to determine.
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Post by l3eta-00a1x on Jul 26, 2010 14:33:30 GMT -5
By cost I meant cost in stones of Energy, not creation stones.
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Post by bikermatt on Jul 26, 2010 14:56:16 GMT -5
Chronomancy (as a mastery of magic) might be a better fit.
+1 or +2 CL might be appropriate for independence from MoM, representing an instictual source of power, such as Mutant power. (Though that might also apply to any other "school" of magic)
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Post by Shadowbane on Jul 26, 2010 14:57:05 GMT -5
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Post by Brainstem on Jul 26, 2010 15:21:29 GMT -5
I also see it as a collection of powers rather than one single mastery: Teleportation can be explained as stopping time and moving while everything else is frozen (and there is even a time travel option in one of the books); Immortality seems like a no-brainer. A healing factor could represent a sped-up metabolism, etc. Prescience is also a no-brainer (seeing a few seconds into the future). A force blast seems natural, and I like the way you described it, but there isn't any point in making it an auto-kill. There is really no reason to involve the Mastery Action at all, unless you really want to. ~TWF This is my stance, as well. Masteries are amazing, but this is getting a bit complex. If you want to reflect what your character can do, then purchase and reflavor the Actions in the books. I had an idea for a character that had the ability to manipulate time, which would have been reflected through Actions and not a Mastery. In addition to twf's auggestions, consider that his Abilities (except for Durability, maybe) are all going to be higher than average, because he's able to slow time around him and maybe strike multiple times in what seems like one (higher Strength), react more easily to things around him (higher Agility), or think strategy a little longer (higher Intelligence).
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Post by l3eta-00a1x on Jul 26, 2010 16:05:07 GMT -5
bikermatt- don't have that rule shadowbane- I looked at that, but it doesn't quite get what I'm doing... If all else fails it's a safe alternative though. Brainstem- The problem with that is I don't want the character to work like that. I want him to A: Have to use energy (probably a lot) to achieve his effects so they don't just game break and B: Following the above, he really shouldn't be living in fast time constantly. What I'm looking for is a massive output of energy to achieve large effects. Like spend 15+ stones to go back in time and prevent the death of a teammate, or completely stopping the enemy to allow escape and regrouping. If you don't have that he essentially just becomes a sped-based character. If you can show any other real way to replicate changing the fabric of time to alter major points of history I'd like to hear it. Teleportation- Essentially moving really, really quickly. Healing Factor- Healing quickly Prescience- not at all what I want, doesn't achieve the level of power I want, at the cost I want. Abilities- All just moving faster Than you just end up with a beefed up Quicksilver, which is fun to play, but not what I'm looking for. EDIT: Read the examples of things I've posted under the different powers in my posts (posts not first post) and if you can think up ways to recreate all of them, than I'll think about just using separate actions. EDIT 2: Let me put it this way, if I wanted a bunch of separate, powerful, no-downside actions, there are many different ways I could make other characters. I could just throw on Power Cosmic for example. But the Mastery and associated downfalls (paradoxes, energy output, etc.) make it a less game breaking character than if I just said I have a bunch of beefed up actions. EDIT 3: You can make any character without a Mastery. Even Human Torch. However they would become a different character than, as what they could do would change, even if only slightly. Mastery over time encompasses more than Fire, so the changes would be that much more noticeable.
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Post by Ziegander on Jul 26, 2010 23:44:30 GMT -5
Does anyone have an answer to these questions:
1) What does speeding up Time actually do for a character? What about the reverse (slowing Time)?
2) How many stones should it cost to actually stop Time?
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Post by Shadowbane on Jul 27, 2010 0:07:46 GMT -5
Speeding up time could do several things. It could increase speed, initiative or something else. Reversing time could allow someone to redo an event or save a friend after the fact.
Stone cost would go to the duration. 1 stone would allow 1 panel of change. 10 stones might allow a year.
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Post by Ziegander on Jul 27, 2010 0:20:27 GMT -5
Speeding up time could do several things. It could increase speed, initiative or something else. The something else, which seems like it ought to be the meat and potatoes here, is what eludes me. Except what about speeding/slowing Time more or less? Say double or triple or quadruple Time (as opposed to 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 Time)? And then what does that do? I'm not trying to play devil's advocate or anything, I'm actually curious what people think as to how this stuff would be replicated in MURPG.
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