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Post by ironfox on Dec 26, 2010 23:11:29 GMT -5
I just finished reading Absolute Justice and it was absolutely great!
In the bonus material in the back of the book there is an area where Jim Krueger talks about a class he took called Story. In this class he was taught that the villain should be, in his own mind, the hero. You can definitely see this theme running throughout the story, mostly through Lex Luthor.
I can agree with this to a point. I do not think it suits all villains. Bizarro and Grundy are just a couple examples of villains that I think are great but who I don't believe think that they are heroes.
I plan on doing my next paper on villainy in the context of storytelling, so what are some of your ideas on the subject?
Do you believe, as Krueger, that a great villain sees himself as the hero? Or does a villain know and just not care that his actions are unjust?
Ideas? Feedback? Sarcasm?
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Post by Dullahan on Dec 26, 2010 23:47:54 GMT -5
Depends on the villain.
Lex Luthor no doubt sees himself as someone heroic, struggling against the evil Superman.
The Joker? He knows he's evil, and nuts, and extremely dangerous, and couldn't care less.
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Post by WildKnight on Dec 27, 2010 8:35:43 GMT -5
Eh... I actually think Luthor is a very poor example of a villain who thinks he's heroic. Lex Luthor understands, traditionally, understands exactly why Superman is seen as a hero and he is seen as a villain. He just thinks that he's smarter than everyone else, and therefore he is beyond simplistic morality.
Lex doesn't so much see himself as "the hero", as he does "the guy who is willing to do the awful things that others won't." Yes, he sees those awful things as necessary, but to have him running around acting like he doesn't understand why others see him as evil seems like a pretty poor representation of a man of his intellect.
A great example of a villain who thinks of himself as the hero is Bizarro (perhaps not in that story, I haven't read it). Bizarro has such a warped view of the world at large that he doesn't "get it." A more conventional example of a villain who thinks of himself as a hero is Brainiac. Brainiac is, in his mind, preserving all of the uniqueness in the galaxy by collecting it (as information), and then destroying it so that no new uniqueness can be developed (and then potentially lost if he fails to collect it).
As Nightmare said, there's also plenty of room for villains who just plain don't care. They revel in their villainy, and it suits them. Most of Batman's villains fall into this category (Joker, Hush, Riddler, etc), which makes Ra's Al Ghul, the only one I can think of who really sees himself as heroic, really stand out.
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Post by ironfox on Dec 27, 2010 10:54:32 GMT -5
Eh... I actually think Luthor is a very poor example of a villain who thinks he's heroic. Lex Luthor understands, traditionally, understands exactly why Superman is seen as a hero and he is seen as a villain. He just thinks that he's smarter than everyone else, and therefore he is beyond simplistic morality. In the story, Lex understood exactly why others viewed him as a villain, he simply believed them all too stupid to understand that he was really doing the world a favor. I think we're agreeing that it's a tomato. We're just pronouncing it differently. I have seen Bizarro portrayed in this way but he was more monstrous in Absolute Justice. Batman described him as the antithesis of Superman. Where Superman finds it gratifying to help others, Bizarro seems to revel in acting like a monster.
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Post by WildKnight on Dec 27, 2010 12:09:49 GMT -5
Yeah, we're definitely talking about the same thing with Lex here.
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Post by andyman on Jan 1, 2011 22:35:46 GMT -5
Do you believe, as Krueger, that a great villain sees himself as the hero? Who am I to disagree with a Krueger?
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