Noob questions

[Ushima911]

2 questions:

1: Please explain what "only through other action/modifier" and the rules to this please.

2: "Action to modifier" what does this mean? If i took Forcefield and bought "action to modifier" *which is a +3CL* would it become a modifier? (meaning i wouldn't have to put any stones at all, it'd just be done like Reflex dodge or toughness?)

[Jet]

1. It means that the only way to use said action is with another. For example, say you bought Invisibility, but you may only use it when doing a handstand (via Acrobatics). Or you have Force Blast, but in order to shoot, you have to have your claws popped out. The effect doesnt necesserily combine well, though. You choose which action combines with what.

2. It means that this action:
-doesnt need energy and can be used fully everytime
-can be used as third action (you can do two other at the same time)
-cant be raised with LOE (though people would argue with that)
So a Force Field as Modifier would mean that you are always covered in Force Field that protects you fully all the time. Combine it with "Self only" and "cant be used for offense" and you get yourself the biggest gamebreaker in history of MURPG- a cheaper version of toughness that nullufies AP and stuff (say what you will about Control Others for telepathy, but at least there is an easy way to counter it). Also, you'll get the "Infamous for being a munchkin dick" reputation on the board and elsewhere. Seriously, dont.

[Ushima911]

Alright I get them both now, however could you explain the stone spending for me? Give me an example please.


And I like your method of explaining..the forcefield was really just an example. So, what actions would be good with this kinda thing?

[malice]

If you have "only with other action/modifier" disadvantage on an action it means you must always put stones in one in order to use the other. If you're not in powered armor it's a way of locking up both your actions per panel (Hence the "disadvantage")

The Action-to-Modifier advantage is pretty effective with anything you don't want to improve with lines. +3 is pretty cheap for "always on", "requires no stones", and "requires no action" so I personally disallow it. It doesn't enhance the game much in my opinion, so I don't really see the point of keeping it around.

I'd rather use a "free stones" advantage if people are worried about energy. Such an advantage allows you to improve an action, but also requires you to take up one of your actions per panel to use that action.

Action-to-Modifier IS nice for some actions, usually actions that feel like modifiers anyway. You might haven noticed I turned Drain Energy into a modifier on my Body Count character. While very powerful, I mostly did it to achieve an effect like a wraith's touch. Most energy drains in the comics don't appear to require effort from the attacker. The power is just on.

[Brainstem]

Dec 31, 2010 14:06:44 GMT -5 Ushima911 said:

Alright I get them both now, however could you explain the stone spending for me? Give meh an example please.


And I like your method of explaining haha..the forcefield was really just an example. So, what actions would be good with this kinda thing?

There should be a chart in your book that details how many stones each Cost Level (CL) comes out to. You start play with a set amount of White creation stones that you use for your attributes (the total goes towards everything).

So let's make a hypothetical. You have 20w to create your street level hero. First thing you want to fill in are his abilities. You've decided you'd like to take advantage of free stones to account for the lower power level and Energy total. In the end, you pick these numbers:

Strength: 1 (1r)
Intelligence: 5i (6w)
Speed: 2 (2r)
Agility: 2 (2r)
Durability: 3 (3w)

That brings your cost total to 9w (4 white stones) and 5r (5 red stones). Because three reds are equal to one white, the cost is actually: 10w2r Pretty hefty, but the Intelligence Energy will serve you very well on the streets!

Next we have your Actions! You'll want to have some combat Actions in there to always be prepared, so build your basics and then work up. You wind up with these Actions:

Close Combat 3 (1w)
Intelligence Bonus or Weapon Modifier
Self Defense
Improvised Weapons
Karate

Ranged Combat 2 (2r)
Weapon Modifier
Thrown Objects
Taking Cover

Social Skills 3 (1w)
Intimidation
Persuasion
New York City underground culture

Psi-Weapon 3 (4w)
Create a Mental Weapon
Combine With Close/Ranged Combat

Black Ops/Spying 3 (2w... remember, Black Ops costs 1 CL more than the Action Number)
Surveillance
Escape
Infiltration/Exfiltration

Our total for Actions is 9w2r, which adds to the Abilities for a total of 19w1r. Psi Weapon suits the character's nature well, as he's always armed but is never visibly armed. The AN can be built up, but the free stones will be very useful to him. When he needs to, he'll be able to get a little more bang with the Intelligence based CC, but the Psi Weapon will be more reliable.

You're just about at your stone cap, but fear not! You can throw a few Challenges in there. Let's get him some Modifiers. Pick a few to enhance what you can do, but don't go too crazy. We'll throw in some Reflexive Dodge so he doesn't have to divert all of his stones toward Defense, but will also give him some Sonar Sense so he can prowl the streets more efficiently.

Reflexive Dodge: +2 (3w)
Sonar Sense: +3 (1w)

Keep it modest so you don't have to make up too much nonsense from Challenges! Your total comes out to 23w1r. Red stones are messy, so throw in a Wealth of 2 (costs 2r) to even it out to 24w. Throw in a few pieces of general equipment (+1 Armor, for example) to round him out a bit and it's set.

Challenges work like Actions but give you Disadvantages to get you back to your Stone Count. I'm pretty sure you've got an idea for how creation works otherwise, so I'll spare you that much.

Hopefully my explanation was good enough? I may have thrown too much in, but context is KEY! Let me know if you have more questions!

[Ushima911]

did you just describe how to make a character brainy? lol i didn't need THAT info..i know all that...

but this'll serve good for anyone who doesnt know i guess XD

[Brainstem]

Well yeah but you talked about pricing! I explained how to make a character along with the how to figure out the pricing and stuff. That's what I gathered you needed, at least? I put it into context because sometimes having the application presented helps a ton.

[Ushima911]

agreed

but i didn't need all of it lol..im not THAT much of a noob XD

but thanks anyways bro!

[Brainstem]

OH! I misread that; you meant spending stones like... in combat with regards to Action-to-Modifier, didn't you.

[Ushima911]

yeah lol

[Brainstem]

In that case, I think that Action to Modifier takes up an Action, but you do still need to actually activate it.

The only Modifiers that always stay active are the ones that are passive (defenses, for example). Claws have to be combined with Close Combat to be used and the same applies to Targeting. If you turn Force Field into a Modifier, I would say that it wouldn't always be active, but that you would have to remember to activate it UNLESS you buy the Artificially Intelligent Advantage. It would still be free and, once activated, you never have to think about it, but bringing it out initially must be announced and not assumed.

With "must be used in conjunction," just think of combining Actions. You can use Close Combat in conjunction with Acrobatics if appropriate, but if you buy Acrobatics with the "must be used in conjunction with Close Combat" Disadvantage, then you have to use Close Combat in order to use Acrobatics and at least one of the Acrobatics stones used must be used towards CC. I wouldn't say that you'd have to spend stones on each, but you do have to use both Action boxes. You know what I mean?

[malice]

Jan 1, 2011 22:01:23 GMT -5 Brainstem said:

In that case, I think that Action to Modifier takes up an Action, but you do still need to actually activate it.

No modifier takes up an action by itself. They may require a related action to activate (Claws as you said), but by themselves they don't take up actions per panel, so actions with the action-to-modifier advantage don't take up actions per panel.

Of course you're free to adjust them to take up actions per panel in games you GM, but using the precedents in the books means that action-to-modifier actions require no action to use, and can in fact always be active should you choose since they require no stone expenditure.

A smart player will limit the amount of liberties they take with the rules because being right according to the rules does not mean you will be right according the GM, and it's better to make a friend than it is to make a point.

I already mentioned the example of Drain Energy as a modifier. This should end up working like an Electrification that attacks red stones first, doesn't stun, and puts a number of stones in my pool equal to the number of stones of damage it deals.

I have NEVER played it like this though, and I have never believed I was entitled to do so either, because the fact that the GM even let me have Drain Energy as a modifier is already an enormous concession. I'm content using it as the Drain Energy action that doesn't require an action per panel and doesn't cost stones.

[raynorn]

I never really thought much about the "Action as a Modifier" but damn it would be fun on leadership. . . shout words of encouragement to your team without spending red stones/actions, and the low cost of leadership would make that affordable.

This would be a good way to run an action for a D&D style bard, or someone who seems to know exactly what to say to boost team morale (Captain America, I am looking at you)

What do you think, nice or too break-ish? Even a low action number would be pretty potent.

Oh and in the main book, what does "artificially intelligent" mean as an advantage (main book pg40) I imagine on an action it could trigger without counting against your max actions but the book makes it clear that it is on Modifiers only . . .

[malice]

Jan 8, 2011 21:21:42 GMT -5 raynorn said:

What do you think, nice or too break-ish? Even a low action number would be pretty potent.

I don't think Leadership breaks with Action-to-Modifier. I love the Leadership action, and one of the reasons is that it's difficult to break.

One person paying for a +3 to cost level action to give a few of their teammates 2 extra stones for free just isn't a problem.

Oh and in the main book, what does "artificially intelligent" mean as an advantage (main book pg40) I imagine on an action it could trigger without counting against your max actions but the book makes it clear that it is on Modifiers only . . .

If you find out, let us know?

People may have created house rules for what that advantage does, but I'm aware of no official explanation of its function. That doesn't mean there isn't one, just that I'm pretty damn sure there isn't one.

The functions I've considered granting it tend to be useful, but too weak for the price, and are normally granted by generous GMs anyway (For example, if you have Artificially Intelligent Energy Defense and Energy Absorption/Reflection, your Energy Defense knows just how much energy to let through so you can get the maximum absorption, and it decreases itself accordingly).

[Brainstem]

Jan 8, 2011 21:21:42 GMT -5 raynorn said:

Oh and in the main book, what does "artificially intelligent" mean as an advantage (main book pg40) I imagine on an action it could trigger without counting against your max actions but the book makes it clear that it is on Modifiers only . . .

In line with my original post, you have to actively switch on most Modifiers. Just because you can see through walls doesn't mean you're going to be looking through a wall to notice the bank robbery going on. I can see perfectly fine, but that doesn't mean I'm always able to notice everything going on around me. You have to actively search to find anything, which would take an Action. If you have an AI Modifier, then you don't have to switch into X-Ray vision, your vision is just able to do it when necessary. You don't have to remember to shoot up your Force Field Modifier because it remembers for itself.

What I meant was that the Action still has to be connected to something before it can be used. The activation itself doesn't necessarily take up an Action, but it has to be used with an Action to do anything. You don't have to spend stones in the Action, but a Modifier has to modify something before it can come into effect.

Defense Modifiers kind of get their own pass, since this is written directly into their descriptions.