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Post by Brainstem on Jan 23, 2011 12:37:42 GMT -5
So who has had success with this in real life? I'm going to try playing casually with some friends and I'd like to know what did and didn't work for you guys!
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Post by Gemini on Jan 23, 2011 13:00:09 GMT -5
So who has had success with this in real life? I'm going to try playing casually with some friends and I'd like to know what did and didn't work for you guys! I played Champions and AD&D for years this way. There wasn't even really a public internet back then. Green screens. Screeching modems. And what passed for computer games were hideous beyond imagining. Temple of Asphai, anyone? It's hard for me to get my head around the concept that some people's experience of RPGs may be almost entirely net-based. It works if you like who you're playing with. |
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Post by Rushlock on Jan 23, 2011 13:24:07 GMT -5
More often than not, it has nothing to do with the content or the system, but much more about the people involved that determine if the tabletop is fun or not. If you already have confidence in the group you're playing with, then nevermind and continue brainstorming  |
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Post by Jet on Jan 23, 2011 15:01:49 GMT -5
What Rushlock says- even the worst system can work out when players and GM know how to use it... and ignore the bad parts.
I had experiance with DnD, Warhammer (Fantasy), Scion, Earthdown, Maids and soon I'll have Shadowrun as well. Enjoyed them for the most part.
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Post by Leeksoup on Jan 23, 2011 16:47:16 GMT -5
I've been GMing tabletop games of MURPG for almost two years now- in fact, I was invited to a tabletop session and that's how I discovered this board. It can definitely work out, but in my experience you need a different mindset to GM a tabletop session as opposed to a forum session.
For example, forum sessions can be as short as 15 panels per issue, due to the great lengths of time between updates. Conversely, because the game is so slow-paced the GM can be incredibly detailed in their posts, so it feels like a lot is going on. IRL this doesn't work. In my games, it usually takes my players (I have 5) 3-5 minutes per panel out of combat and around 15 mins per panel in combat. That seems like a lot, but when you consider you'll be working hard to record everything they do and plot out intelligent responses for your NPCs it goes by fast. Oftentimes you simply can't afford to be very detailed with your descriptions.
The good side to this, though, is that since the pace is so fast players do more random things. They'll take the plot places you didn't expect. You can trick them a lot easier, since they don't have two weeks to contemplate what you've written. They'll fight amongst themselves. IMO, tabletop games are a lot more fun than online games (even if they are typically less deep). AND, unlike online, you can claim GM's Rights of Pizza! (free food ftw)
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Post by Brainstem on Jan 23, 2011 16:56:06 GMT -5
How do you handle allocating stones? Do all of the players do this privately (GM included) and then all reveal simultaneously, resolving in order, or do you have players decide what they're doing as their turn comes up in the Initiative? I've leaned towards the first, but what is you guys' experience?
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Post by WildKnight on Jan 23, 2011 17:15:55 GMT -5
How do you handle allocating stones? Do all of the players do this privately (GM included) and then all reveal simultaneously, resolving in order, or do you have players decide what they're doing as their turn comes up in the Initiative? I've leaned towards the first, but what is you guys' experience? The first thing is the only way it works if you're allowing things like Prescience. "Works" of course is very loosely used here, since this system blows table top (and everybody who claims otherwise is self-deluded or full of shit) |
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Post by Leeksoup on Jan 23, 2011 20:15:03 GMT -5
"Works" of course is very loosely used here, since this system blows table top (and everybody who claims otherwise is self-deluded or full of shit) Or maybe you simply have been Doing It Wrong? Or maybe its because all my players, me included, haven't played any other system. Regardless, mostly we go in order of initiative, with people allocating stones openly. We tried doing it secretively but it took three times as long and was half as fun. First we have tthe players all allocating stones, then the GM does math, then he explains what happened to who. Make sense? |
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Post by WildKnight on Jan 23, 2011 20:17:31 GMT -5
Or maybe you simply have been Doing It Wrong? Ahhh, the MURPG equivalent of when someone who enjoys some particularly crappy kind of music or movie says "you just don't understand it" to their detractors. |
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Post by malice on Jan 23, 2011 20:17:41 GMT -5
It works fine table-top, and surprisingly I'm not full of shit or self-deluded. I ran MURPG tabletop last week and last night, and my players seemed to enjoy themselves.
I have all players allocate at once, they are allowed to plan their actions together and know what I think their characters would know in the situations.
If actions interfere with each other, players are allowed to adjust some things. For example of you wanted to punch Enemy A but Enemy A goes down before your initiative, you get to adjust within reason to attack Enemy B instead. This isn't usually a problem, since my players plan what they're doing so that they don't get in each other's ways.
There are a few things I will emphasize though:
Announce clearly when it's time to allocate. Say it loudly and clearly, and make sure everyone is doing it at the same time. This is just the way to get people into a cycle of Allocate, Resolve, Regen, Allocate, etc. The game becomes very slow and convoluted if you don't get everyone into a drill. Also getting everyone into that drill teaches them better how to play and how much time they have time to think. They improve at it quickly if they are consistently given things to do, because the system is simple enough if you put the effort into it.
I resolve things in the order of who goes first to last. Agility 5, 4, 3, etc. Defense is applied at the beginning of the panel, but actions that "Dodge" rather than defend like teleport and phase shift go on their agility order.
It helps if everyone knows what they're doing, but they're not going to so encourage them to learn. Since there's no chance mechanics there's no "beginner's luck", you are either proficient or you will fail. The system is especially hard on beginners who don't mind their energy. Balance how much you punish and forgive mistakes. Even my most advanced players are only experienced with most of the system and struggled with magic, for example. We help newer players make their allocations and if they make a mistake in their allocations then I tend to compromise on that allocation and then require it to be accurate in the future.
Acknowledge the failings of the system. Basic things are often so unclear that a paragraph of text in the books will say nothing. In these situations I just take a consistent line that may not always be perfect in-game but I lay out what I'm doing for my players so they understand why we're doing it this way.
My GMing may be a little too robotic for other people's tastes (It is for mine), but I feel like to make MURPG work you have to create a routine and require that the game be the center of attention. It falls apart easily if you everyone doesn't devote the necessary attention, because they can't just tune in every now and then and roll a die that will decide what happens.
They have to think, and they have to try. I know that this seems like an obvious point (i.e. if you can get all your players to think and try then any system works), but the point is that if people aren't in the mood to put in the work for MURPG then it's not a good night for MURPG.
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Post by Dominus on Jan 23, 2011 20:42:59 GMT -5
I ran MURPG as a tabletop for about a month (4 sessions). I tried to keep it simple and had players create relatively straightforward characters. The way I handled allocation was to do my allocation for the npcs first and then went through the players approving their allocations and answering any questions, then I resolved actions in orders according to initiative. It seemed to work out fine. The only failing was in how certain powers and actions worked. A number of powers were very easy to exploit and a number of others were so vague that it required we practically stop everything and figure out a workable solution before continuing.
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Post by malice on Jan 23, 2011 21:16:53 GMT -5
The only failing was in how certain powers and actions worked. A number of powers were very easy to exploit and a number of others were so vague that it required we practically stop everything and figure out a workable solution before continuing. This is where this site has helped me a lot. The people here have done a lot of work making slight tweaks and such to make the system run more smoothly. A lot of the stuff that auto-breaks the game I have an answer to, a lot of the vague things are either deleted or ironed out, and a lot of the stuff that's just a little too good I can restrain. Most of my solutions come from the GMs and discussions on this board, not from my own work. I see something good I incorporate it. How many years ago was this game published? 8 years? That's 8 years of work done by people of this site making the game better, and I use it. I can understand if people threw their hands in the air and gave up on this game tabletop 8 years ago when it came out, but it can run pretty smoothly with all the content available now. You can make a character with 2 durability who has 30 energy and a workable recovery rate. People learn from other people a lot better than they learn from books, which means that you can tweak the system to work and then teach the effective game to other people while using the books as a reference. It's simple enough that I can remember cost levels, almost every action and modifier's cost, and don't need to consult the books that often to build a few characters and run a game. That means other people can do the same, and that they can learn the game from people and don't have to rely on the books. I still use the books, but if you start your players out with the understanding that the system needs work, they can keep that in mind as they learn and play. My group learns new games all the time. Usually they're taught by 1-3 specific people who have read through the rules and done the legwork already. We start people out with essential information ("This is a useless thing, this is a broken thing, here's the goal of the game, here's how you accomplish it, here are good strategies to employ" etc.), and work from there. |
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Post by Ricochet on Jan 25, 2011 15:47:49 GMT -5
Haven't played MURPG in years, honestly. I tried to do a session last saturday with my brother and 2 friends, but one of them didn't show up, so we played Smash Bros instead.
What I remember though was that upkeep was a pain in the ass. (This was the first RPG we played, none of us had any prior experience) Initiative was quite challenging too. And our adventures made no sense at all, but I still killed Britney Spears.
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Post by shenron on Jan 28, 2011 2:39:13 GMT -5
And our adventures made no sense at all, but I still killed Britney Spears. That is awesome, I wonder what kind of adventure would have Britney Spears as the boss man, that it epic though. No, as for tabletop? I love table top, I am currently in a Pathfinder game that is going to be on hold and we will start a Alternity game. I plan on putting together a Dark Sun game in 4th ed, but if I cannot abstract the movement effectively, I will have to transfer to Pathfinder. In honesty, you can be playing the worst system/game/setting ever, including the game that shall not be named. What makes it fun and enjoyable is the people in your group and your GM. If you are out of sync with one of those or you have a old school DM (under the old Gary Mentality of Players vs. DM) then it might not be so fun. I remember my best GM experience was when I was the GM and I ran a two year story for Vampire: The Masquerade, half of it was table top and half of it was live action with my homebrew rules for. It started out with me and 4 players and then grew so big I needed to elect a second ST to help control everything. |
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