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Post by takewithfood on Apr 16, 2012 10:20:39 GMT -5
I think the point is that they're progressing from disorganized selfish teenagers who all want to be team leader to young adults who have learned how to trust and depend on one another, and care about each other genuinely.
I'm sick to sh*t of idiot ball plots where the dramatic tension is created and upheld almost entirely by the fact that nobody talks to anyone about anything important. It's beyond lazy writing.
Keeping secrets was a theme in this season's plot arc, and it only makes sense that those secrets finally either damn them or be resolved. They were mostly resolved, and I think that's great.
My only trouble with it is that it happened in a single scene and was never spoken of again. >_< dafuq. That's what's unrealistic and disappointing, and that's what makes it boring. A whole season's worth of tension diffused in about 1 minute of screen time? Ugh. It should have taken a lot more time than that.
(And if you think that resolution was wrapped up too quickly, just wait until you see the finale. WK, I suggest putting a homing device on your sh*t because you're going to lose it.)
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Apr 16, 2012 11:35:03 GMT -5
It's pretty unlikely I'll even see it. I only saw this last episode on accident
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Post by takewithfood on Apr 16, 2012 15:19:32 GMT -5
If you never try anything new you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Apr 16, 2012 15:37:27 GMT -5
If you never try anything new you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments. ~TWF I gave this show the old college try. I've had enough disappointment (besides, it looks like the new season of Earth's Mightiest is going to provide me with plenty more, and Avengers comes out in a few weeks...)
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Post by Jet on Apr 17, 2012 2:00:18 GMT -5
I honestly cannot believe you're arguing FOR the most boring resolution possible. I've got some recommendations for you; My Little Pony, Thomas the Tank Engine, and the Smurfs. They all resolve things through communication and sharing each and every episode. Knock yourself out. Smurfs were fun when I was a kid, nowadays I only ever watch them when my niece is visiting. And as for My Little Pony- way ahead of you
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Post by shazam on Apr 17, 2012 2:12:48 GMT -5
Did that show ever have a ending? The Smurfs I mean, I just assumed that eventually Gargamel died from old age, and the smurfs were immortal fey creatures until the modern age.
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Post by WildKnight on Apr 17, 2012 5:56:01 GMT -5
I honestly cannot believe you're arguing FOR the most boring resolution possible. I've got some recommendations for you; My Little Pony, Thomas the Tank Engine, and the Smurfs. They all resolve things through communication and sharing each and every episode. Knock yourself out. Smurfs were fun when I was a kid, nowadays I only ever watch them when my niece is visiting. And as for My Little Pony- way ahead of you Oh Playah. I used to respect you.
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Post by Jet on Apr 17, 2012 10:27:19 GMT -5
Smurfs were fun when I was a kid, nowadays I only ever watch them when my niece is visiting. And as for My Little Pony- way ahead of you Oh Playah. I used to respect you. No, you didn't.
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Lee
Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D
Posts: 30
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Post by Lee on Apr 17, 2012 23:26:10 GMT -5
I don't care about reality. If I did, I probably wouldn't watch cartoons meant for teenagers. Reality sucks, because it doesn't have giant robots, super powers and everyone is a jerk. Wow...just, wow. I'm not being sarcastic(perhaps for once in years) nor is my aim to piss you off Jet, but that right there? That's honestly sad. Your appreciation for comics and cartoons does not stem from simple enjoyment, but a need for escapism from the big, bad, dickish world? You and me, we should go out for a drink or twelve and have a serious talk, because right now, I'm genuinely concerned about you. Sorry for the outburst guys, it's just that...damn, that caught me by surprise.
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Post by Beacon on Apr 17, 2012 23:31:44 GMT -5
On teen heroes:
All I’m saying is that teen angst in the real world has nothing on teen angst among superheroes. Young Justice isn’t about a bunch of teens in high school; it’s about a bunch of teens on a superhero team. It’s refreshing to see a bunch of people who regularly trust each other with their lives realize that it’s okay to trust your secrets to the people you already trust with your life.
I was annoyed when a teenage Peter Parker didn’t think his Aunt May could handle knowing he’s Spider-Man (and don’t get me started on the modern “adult” Peter Parker’s underestimation of the woman who raised him). Superboy and Miss Martian taking so long to be honest with each other is arguably worse since they’re similar enough that they should be able to relate to each other’s problems.
On kids cartoons:
I can’t really speak toward Thomas the Tank Engine or Dora the Explorer because I haven’t watched them.
I haven’t seen Smurfs since I was a little kid so I really can’t speak to the quality of the show. I liked it at the time but I don’t know how well it holds up.
The first season of the new My Little Pony series was great though. I’m not sure how it is now that Lauren Faust has a smaller role though.
(Hey, you know most superhero cartoons are aimed at kids, right?)
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Post by Jet on Apr 18, 2012 1:55:23 GMT -5
I don't care about reality. If I did, I probably wouldn't watch cartoons meant for teenagers. Reality sucks, because it doesn't have giant robots, super powers and everyone is a jerk. Wow...just, wow. I'm not being sarcastic(perhaps for once in years) nor is my aim to piss you off Jet, but that right there? That's honestly sad. Your appreciation for comics and cartoons does not stem from simple enjoyment, but a need for escapism from the big, bad, dickish world? You and me, we should go out for a drink or twelve and have a serious talk, because right now, I'm genuinely concerned about you. Sorry for the outburst guys, it's just that...damn, that caught me by surprise. Chill, dude, Im overacting and you of all people should know that. Next time I'll say something along the lines of "Rince still owes me money, I'll kill him when I see him"- dont call the cops, ok? (in case someone doesnt know- I know Lee in RL). Still awesome. Refreshing is a good way to put it. After soooooooooooo many angsty, jerkish teen teams we FINALLY got one that has problems and instead of killing each other over it (need I remind you what happened to Superboy in comics?), just takes the mature road. For the first time. I wish more people I knew were that honest.
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Post by WildKnight on Apr 18, 2012 6:23:32 GMT -5
It's not refreshing. It's BORING. So boring that I was forced to capitalize all of the letters.
If you guys seriously cannot see that the way that episode was written was not some more evolved form of teenage hero, but an example of REALLY lazy writing, then I pity you (and fully understand how supposedly grown men could support a crap show like My Little Pony)
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Post by takewithfood on Apr 18, 2012 8:07:51 GMT -5
Perhaps to clarify: I do find the idea of angsty teens growing both personally and with regards to their relationships with one another throughout the course of a season to the point where they learn to resolve their problems with honesty and with each other's help to be refreshing.
However, I also found that the way it actually played out in ep 25 of Young Justice was insanely boring. They instantly diffused 24 episodes of tension in one scene. That sucks.
And yes, it's bad writing, but the part where WK and I disagree is on whether it's due to laziness or if it's a desperate patch-job. I think it actually came out so awkwardly and abruptly that laziness doesn't even cover it - I suspect that someone screwed the season up past around Ep 9 or so, and this was their solution. If you can call it that.
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Apr 18, 2012 10:56:30 GMT -5
Even if it's a bad patch job (a notion I'm fine with), it's still lazy... Laziness may not be the ONLY problem, but it's definitely A problem.
And seriously, I don't get this "it's refreshing" thing at all. Would people seriously read comic books (or any other form of fiction) where people resolved things with discussion? It strikes me as slightly less interesting than watching dry paint (which is in and of itself slightly less interesting than watching paint dry)
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Post by takewithfood on Apr 18, 2012 11:20:45 GMT -5
I don't think it's definitely a problem. We have no idea what they had to work with. Argh, here.
SPOILERS AGAIN
The creators of Young Justice cautioned fans near the beginning of the show that not all the heroes survive the season - someone, at least one person, but possibly more - was going to die. I've seen the finale, and that doesn't happen - they all survive just fine. So clearly, some major changes were made to the intended plot arc. It's apparent that they had something much darker in mind, and for whatever reason they changed their mind while the show was already in progress - that's why I suspect executive meddling. It's a kid's show after all, and I doubt the producers liked the idea of a protagonist dying.
While we're on the subject, there were other problems, too - apparently they intended to have Wonder Girl join the show, but for contractual reasons that turned out to be impossible; I suspect that we got Zatanna instead.
The show went on haitus twice and the finale was pushed so far back that it's airing the week before the season 2 premiere - that's pretty drastic. Episodes were aired out of sequence and many developments and their subsequent resolutions came about very abruptly.
Is it lazy? Possibly, but I don't think so - and I certainly don't think we can say so definitively either way. We don't know everything that went on behind the scenes, and so we don't know what they had to work with. This may really have been the best option at their disposal.
I find the idea of a world where there is no possibility of anyone ever resolving a problem through discussion even more boring. Physical confrontations can absolutely be a ton of fun, and they're central to the genre without a doubt. But they become stale if they're reduced to an inevitability. Taking away any possibility of diplomacy or forgiveness limits and oversimplifies the storyline and deflates a lot of tension and suspense.
Do you really not understand any of that?
EDIT: Man, even though I normally enjoy a good debate, this one is getting really boring.
~TWF
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