Justice League New Frontier

[Deleted]

With all this hype about the new Captain America movie I've been looking over old school cartoons, or cartoons that were drawn to be old school. Last night I watched "The Justice League New Frontier," and that was awesome. I even went really old school and checked out Superman-Secret Agent, and Jungle Drum.

Justice League Frontier was also awesome because it even went as so far to go back to the old Superman Costume with the S over the black shield instead of the yellow. I like how it was drawn to look more like an older cartoon.

I also checked out All Star Superman. Which was great seeing Clark fumbling his way through the battle with the parasite. It's funny how Superman is clumsily clever as Clark Kent.

[WildKnight]

Are you kidding me? Justice League New Frontier was crap.

The comic was good, but the movie was unwatchable.

[Deleted]

I haven't read the comics, due to no comic store being around, and the fact most of the books I own are college books. So, the cartoon wasn't bad. Spending a couple of hours watching a cartoon on the internet is more convenient than buying comics online and getting them later then probably not getting the chance to read them.

I loved the art work in the movie though. You could tell it was newer work, but it still looked pretty old school.

[WildKnight]

I do agree about the artwork. I enjoyed it.

[Deleted]

I wasn't as crazy about the plot with the whole source thing, but I was so focused on the art I didn't care. I've been trying to get to where I can draw more in the 1940's and 50's style for my comic. So, this movie was fun for me.

[comicfan]

Uh I think the cartoon was good, I watched the animated movie, and read the comic. Comic expands more on what was going on, like John Henry's death (And origin). I picked up both volumes, along with Green Lantern: No Fear, and Green Lantern: Revenge of the Green Lanterns (How the hell did I not get into that comic series growing up?). Haven't seen All Star Superman yet.

[Deleted]

I liked the animated movie for JLF, but I still think the storyline could have been better. I just hated the source thing. As far as art and time peroid go it's the best new animated feature I've seen in years.

All Star Superman wasn't bad, but I wouldn't own it. Lex was smart in it, and seeing Lois as Superwoman was different, but the way Superman saves people as Clark Kent was brilliant.

[Beacon]

The New Frontier movie isn’t as good as the comic but the same is true for All Star Superman.

I still really liked both movies and was actually more bothered by the cuts to All Star (though I’m happy the overly long Bizarro arc is gone) than I was by the ones to Frontier.

(Can we all come together as a community and agree that the two Superman/Batman movies were just as awful as the comics that spawned them?)

[WildKnight]

I haven't read much of Superman/Batman, but I'm a huge fan of the comic it's an homage to (World's Finest).

All Star Superman and All Star Batman are, for me, two of the worst things to ever happen to comic books. Both were/are (are they still going) terrible representations of characters I generally enjoy. I would go so far as to even say mockeries of them. Between the two, the only thing I found worthwhile in all of them was Clark Kent playing up being a big oaf. Despite all the jokes about how obvious it should be that Supes and Clark are the same guy, I'm a big believer in the fact that slight changes in appearance combined with big changes in demeanor can fool the majority of observers (field manuals from "spy" organizations all over the world suggest this very thing).

[Deleted]

Mar 14, 2011 6:26:55 GMT -5 WildKnight said:

Despite all the jokes about how obvious it should be that Supes and Clark are the same guy, I'm a big believer in the fact that slight changes in appearance combined with big changes in demeanor can fool the majority of observers (field manuals from "spy" organizations all over the world suggest this very thing).

A possible explanation that writers might try someday, if they haven't already, is maybe a form of illusion. I could see superman having enhanced brainwaves that simply make people not see the resemblance. I'm not a hard core Superman fan though, and that may cause people to hate the writer, but I personally thing that would be a concept that would be worth exploring.

I remember watching Dark Wing Duck, and there were an episode where Drake Mallard came to a costume party as Darkwing Duck. Nobody seemed to realize he actually was Darkwing. So, the power of perception is a good disguise.

I studied body language for a while, and read a couple of different books on the subject. There are things that Alpha Males do as in Walk, talk, and general body posture that can tell different moods, and even project different moods if you recognize what the que's are. Walking with your head up means you're confident, head slouched usually means that you're not as confident.

People who have beta movement aren't as notice naturally, and alpha movement is. Superman uses Alpha movement as superman, and beta movement as Clark Kent. He's Clumsy, doesn't have the same swagger, or as good posture.

Another thing about superman is the "Peawee wee Effect." The term is taken from the peawee wee bird and it's feathers to look flashy and stand out more. This isn't uncommon around people in general doing something to stand out. You know, funky hair, flashy clothing, or a cape and tights. Where as Clark Kent dresses very bland, and I honestly would not give him a second look if I were on the sub way with him for the reason he doesn't stand out.

Superman is only 6'3." Whenever he's Superman, he's using his full posture, and body movement. Whenever he's Clark Kent he's slouched over, and probably wouldn't look much over 5'10." The darker clothing wouldn't make his build as clear either. I've also seen Clark wearing an overcoat most of the time. It would be hard to tell his build.

Not to mention those glasses. He wears what is known in ARMY slang as BCG's (Birth Control Glasses). Reason being is that odds are you aren't going to get laid wearing them. They are like an eyesore. They are common on the field because they are very durable. Whenever I was in basic training some of the members of my platoon wore glasses, and BCG's were mandatory, and the privates that wore glasses didn't get to wear there normal frames except for family day. So, I knew some of these people for weeks, but whenever they put on their normal frames, or wore contacts at first glance I didn't recognize them.

So, I think Superman isn't noticed as Clark Kent because Clark Kent isn't nearly as noticeable as the people around him. Truth be told if I worked with Clark Kent I probably would only see Superman briefly while he was rescuing people. So, whenever I got back to work, and seen Clark stumble in I would be like "dumbass," and then go back to work.

There's another study that shows that when things happen like accidents, or robberies that people can't recall things as well. Something about the adrenalin messes with the brain. In most cases people can't even tell you what color the people were wearing, let alone what they looked like.

The only people who would ever notice Clark would probably be Perry, Jimmy, and Lois. That's only because they work closely with him. Most people probably wouldn't even pay attention to Clark because he's just some newspaper reporter.

If I met Superman as another super hero then the odds of me meeting Clark Kent would be small. I don't think unless you knew Clark Kent, and also worked with Superman that you would ever suspect a thing.

[WildKnight]

In the Silver Age, Superman used to vibrate the molecules of his face, making his appearance difficult to determine (when he was Superman only).

But it doesn't take all that. Ask anyone who has ever been a field operative for an Intelligence Agency. All it takes is different clothes, one or two minor alterations in appearance, and different affectations. People LOVE to think they're way too smart to be fooled by this (which is partially why it works), but all you have to do is take a quick look at eyewitness accounts from crimes where multiple witnesses got a really good look at the same person. Read their descriptions. Human memory is largely based on the feel of an experience. In peoples mind's eye, Superman is probably 7 feet tall, even if they just saw him 2 minutes ago and know he's only 6'4"

During the late 80's (post crisis) there was an artist who drew Superman as very large and imposing, and Clark Kent as rather thin, and always with slumped shoulders. I heard him speak at a comic convention about his decision to do that, and he said that it was intended to convey a perceptual difference between the two men. Everyone around Superman saw him as some kind of Titan, so why wouldn't the reader? Likewise, most people saw Clark Kent as being persona non grata most of the time.

This is one (of many) areas where Christopher Reeves was an epic failure as Superman. His portrayal of Superman was exactly the same kind of goofy countryboy milksop as his portrayal of Clark Kent. It would have been awesome if he'd gone for the golden age "tossing bad guys through walls" super-jock type Superman, but I guess that would have turned off a lot of potential fans.

[Deleted]

I've read the writers had to change allot of things about Golden Age superman due to comic book laws and stuff. I'd love to see more Golden Age WWII Superman media, but could they legally make Superman like that now? I don't own any Golden Age books, but I've read that he occasionally killed people, and was allot more violent. I know comics have gotten allot more lax over the years, but I just wonder how they would market a Golden Age Superman movie. It probably wouldn't be kid friendly.

[WildKnight]

The CCA was self-imposed, not based on "laws"... but, yes, they changed a lot of things about a lot of heroes because of it (and it was probably the best defense they had at the time against being hit with actual laws).

I don't think Superman ever killed anyone "on screen" in the golden age, but he certainly did things that would kill any normal person, and he had very few really "super human" opponents. He would throw people into the sky or through walls, etc.

Of course, Batman originally had a gun, too...