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Post by sphynx on May 14, 2005 15:28:31 GMT -5
It's not a House Rule, it's Interpretation of the rules. Why is this considered an 'Interpretation' and not a 'House Rule', because the rules is preceeded by the example of Cyclops who has a 12 stone action with +2 advantange and -4 in disadvantages. Means the cost is 20 stones, with a minimum of 10 (-3 max). Some people even went into great long debates trying to prove that it meant with an AN that high, the No Lines of Experience was only -1 to 'keep it fair'. However, nonetheless it's all Interpretation, and I do believe Disadvantages should reduce Advantages before the half-cost rule applies (based on the Cyclops Example).
Sphynx
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Post by omniscient on May 16, 2005 3:12:13 GMT -5
It's not a House Rule, it's Interpretation of the rules. Why is this considered an 'Interpretation' and not a 'House Rule', because the rules is preceeded by the example of Cyclops who has a 12 stone action with +2 advantange and -4 in disadvantages. Means the cost is 20 stones, with a minimum of 10 (-3 max). Some people even went into great long debates trying to prove that it meant with an AN that high, the No Lines of Experience was only -1 to 'keep it fair'. However, nonetheless it's all Interpretation, and I do believe Disadvantages should reduce Advantages before the half-cost rule applies (based on the Cyclops Example). Sphynx No No No No... As I told you before, Page 49 Force Blasts, under COMMENTS: "This is the same basic Action Cyclops used to create his Optic Blasts. He started with a Concussive Blast from his eyes with AN of 9. Then added the following Advantages and Disadvantages to the basic Action: * Can't be improved (-2 to CL) * 2x Damage (+2 to CL) * Power out of control without device (-2 to CL) So Cyclops' Optic Blasts ends up costing him 6 white stones." @ Topic, You can't make Colossus with 40 stones... Trust me I tried. |
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Post by sphynx on May 16, 2005 3:39:47 GMT -5
It's not a House Rule, it's Interpretation of the rules. Why is this considered an 'Interpretation' and not a 'House Rule', because the rules is preceeded by the example of Cyclops who has a 12 stone action with +2 advantange and -4 in disadvantages. Means the cost is 20 stones, with a minimum of 10 (-3 max). Some people even went into great long debates trying to prove that it meant with an AN that high, the No Lines of Experience was only -1 to 'keep it fair'. However, nonetheless it's all Interpretation, and I do believe Disadvantages should reduce Advantages before the half-cost rule applies (based on the Cyclops Example). Sphynx No No No No... As I told you before, Page 49 Force Blasts, under COMMENTS: "This is the same basic Action Cyclops used to create his Optic Blasts. He started with a Concussive Blast from his eyes with AN of 9. Then added the following Advantages and Disadvantages to the basic Action: * Can't be improved (-2 to CL) * 2x Damage (+2 to CL) * Power out of control without device (-2 to CL) So Cyclops' Optic Blasts ends up costing him 6 white stones." @ Topic, You can't make Colossus with 40 stones... Trust me I tried. Ah Hah! I knew it wasn't a House Rule, I just couldn't find that example when I searched (I knew it was the Cyclops example though...), much thanks. So, that proves that Disadvantages can counter Advantages before the 'half stones' rule takes effect. But, it doesn't give the right to reduce Options with disadvantages. Hence the ruling that Options are a part of the base-cost when calculating the half-off. The question then becomes "Why are Options not considered to be Disadvantages?" Because Options adjust the 'Cost Level', (looking at Mastery, the 'base cost' is set at AN + Options Taken). Anyhow, Omniscient, your pointing that out makes Colossus equal to 40 stones using a Mastery. Thanks.  Sphynx |
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Post by omniscient on May 16, 2005 4:04:18 GMT -5
Ah Hah! I knew it wasn't a House Rule, I just couldn't find that example when I searched (I knew it was the Cyclops example though...), much thanks. So, that proves that Disadvantages can counter Advantages before the 'half stones' rule takes effect. But, it doesn't give the right to reduce Options with disadvantages. Hence the ruling that Options are a part of the base-cost when calculating the half-off. The Options ARE Advantages & Disadvantages SPECIFIC to the power they are assigned for. The question then becomes "Why are Options not considered to be Disadvantages?" Because Options adjust the 'Cost Level', (looking at Mastery, the 'base cost' is set at AN + Options Taken). Mastery and Telepathy are exceptions to the rule, mainly because without any options they don´t do jack... Except telepathy which would give you Mental defence at AN. base cost of regular action is AN + x [x being FIXED value] |
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Post by sphynx on May 16, 2005 4:08:01 GMT -5
The Options ARE Advantages & Disadvantages SPECIFIC to the power they are assigned for. In the immortal words of Omniscient. "Feel free to quote te book to prove me wrong." Mastery and Telepathy are exceptions to the rule, mainly because without any options they don´t do jack... Except telepathy which would give you Mental defence at AN. base cost of regular action is AN + x [x being FIXED value] Well, we are discussing a Mastery in this thread. Point remains. Sphynx |
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Post by omniscient on May 16, 2005 4:27:10 GMT -5
In the immortal words of Omniscient. "Feel free to quote te book to prove me wrong." Telekinesis and Telepathy have Int bonus as an option for reduced prize, Ability bonus is Advantage. There are Options with negative value, which are Disadvantages, "like requires eye contact". Well, we are discussing a Mastery in this thread. Point remains. Sphynx True, but even to these power it should be change as Telepathy cost = AN with notification that you have to have atleast 1 option. and Mastery cost = AN + x [x being decided by the scale of the power, +2 to magnetism, +3 to Photons Energy, +8 to Cosmic Ect. Ect.] This mainly because you can, after the A&H book, you can "buy" Options with Lines. [which in original rules wasn´t possible.] |
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Post by sphynx on May 16, 2005 4:32:07 GMT -5
First of all, Telepathy is a vastly powerful action without any options at all. You can read people minds, and get a free mental defense. The reading of people's minds by itself is a huge bonus. Maybe not on board games where combat is alot more prevalent in order to maintain interest, but Telepathy is way cool even with no options (Masteries, you have a point with though).
However, it doesn't show that Advantages/Disadvantages and Options are the same. As I said from the beginning, it's an Interpretation. I am not saying that they are not the same thing, I'm saying that they are not the same thing in my (and most other people's) games. You can discuss it all you want, end result remains that it's an Interpretation because though devoted searching of the books, there is not 1 rule on how Options work in regards to Advantages and Disadvantages.
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Post by omniscient on May 16, 2005 5:27:12 GMT -5
First of all, Telepathy is a vastly powerful action without any options at all. You can read people minds, and get a free mental defense. The reading of people's minds by itself is a huge bonus. Maybe not on board games where combat is alot more prevalent in order to maintain interest, but Telepathy is way cool even with no options (Masteries, you have a point with though). Now that you reminded me, yes this is true I allways tought it funny that base ability of telepathy was to read minds and not communication. this however creates on odd occurence, where you´ll get Telepathy 10 with bonus Mental def +10 at cost of 15 w where as you´d have to pay 15 w for mental def +10. Stupid. However, it doesn't show that Advantages/Disadvantages and Options are the same. As I said from the beginning, it's an Interpretation. I am not saying that they are not the same thing, I'm saying that they are not the same thing in my (and most other people's) games. You can discuss it all you want, end result remains that it's an Interpretation because though devoted searching of the books, there is not 1 rule on how Options work in regards to Advantages and Disadvantages. True... But there´s circumstantial evidence toward it The books do feel like version 1.0 too much room for interpretations. Then again maybe they intended that... like a gimmick to empathize the effect of different writers in comics. maybe the same reason applies to Iconic nature of Official write-ups [as opposed to "just to save room"]? |
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Post by sphynx on May 16, 2005 8:33:42 GMT -5
Telepathy vs Mental Defense (Only 1 of those 2 options take up 1 of your 9 slots for Actions, taking Telepathy with no options JUST for Mental Defense is acceptable because you'll only get 8 more actions  ) Sphynx |
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Post by brick on Jun 9, 2005 23:42:58 GMT -5
its funny i looked at 2 threads i hadnt looked at in a while and both have sphinx and omniscient quoting eachother and trying to prove eachother wrong, nothing wrong with it i just think its funny
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