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Post by takewithfood on May 5, 2012 0:58:34 GMT -5
I've had the book for a while but I'm only just getting into it now. I found the book to be intensely confusing at first, but the system itself isn't actually as counter-intuitive as the way the rules are presented. It took a lot of reading and re-reading, but I think I have finally gotten the hang of it.
If I could somehow reorganize the book, I would separate the Player and Watcher rules into separate sections, for starters. It's okay, and even a good thing for the Player section to make mention of what sort of powers the Watcher has, and certainly to explain the Doom Pool, but the constant transition back and forth between "I'm playing [insert character here] and..." and "As the Watcher I blah blah" really cluttered things up.
I would also start with character creation, as it's the easiest part of the game. Get people with their own character as soon as possible then use that foundation to explain what you can do with that character. There is a little too much discussion about gaining and spending PP and the manipulation of your dice pool when we don't fully understand distinctions or power sets.
Once I actually got around to making my own character I got a much better understanding of how the game works, and I came to really like several aspects of it. In particular I love the way Distinctions and Milestones blend a game mechanic with character concepts and personal storylines together. That's pretty genius, I have to say! In pretty much ever other RPG I've played I've always felt that character backgrounds, mentality, outlook, and goals were sort of needless but fun window dressing around a collection of numbers, items, and bonuses. Not so in Marvel Heroic! I love that.
I still have yet to play, so my opinion on things is likely to change as I actually get into the trenches, but already I'm anticipating a few problems. For starters, I find that some power traits are a little unbalanced. Let's look at Movement Powers, for example: Flight is clearly superior to basically every other interpretation. It's faster by far and just generally more versatile than swinglines, leaping, and certainly over just running. And while we're at it, Sorcery seems to trump basically everything.
And in general I'm wary of the free-form character creation process where players are encouraged to just pick whatever they feel is reasonable. We're somewhat accustomed to dealing with that here, as MURPG also gives great leeway to power gamers, but Heroics takes this a little bit further and your average gamer group may not handle it well.
Anyway, really looking forward to trying it. I'm pumped about playing around with Distinctions and Milestones, and eager to get a better feel for the system in play. Overall I'd say I'm pretty optimistic.
~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on May 18, 2012 10:25:19 GMT -5
I think we might need a whole folder for discussing the Heroic system. What do you guys think?
I'm considering running some quasi-experimental one-shots, or very short serials in order to play around with the possibilities of the system. I've come up with a few adjustments for a possible Narutoverse game, as well as a separate set of rules for a fantasy setting. I think I need a little more time to mull it over, though.
The system is holding up a little better in PbP than I anticipated, but it really does require a lot of activity - as in, players need to check the forums multiple times a day or the game grinds to a halt. With a dedicated group of players, though, it's a ton of fun even online. The game's focus on roleplaying and personal storylines really shines in a written medium.
~TWF
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Post by roxolid on May 18, 2012 10:37:11 GMT -5
I think the rules would need a few statements from players along the lines of:
If <statement of something happens, or does not happen> do <this. Spend plot points or step up or whatever you call it>
When in play by post, because the to/fro nature of the game will quickly result in those players able to post a few times daily 'swamping' the thread whilst others will check in and find 3 pages worth of plot point spending to trawl through. With the right pre-organised method of spending plot points it might just keep things ticking along nicely.
I'd be interested in a play example that breaks down the game into basics and explanations of what is happening, because the book is not user friendly with regards teaching new players (hence the dozens of threads on various forums asking questions).
I get the basics - describe what your character is doing, add dice from various areas on the sheet, pick two to use and one die type as effect, compare to opposing total. It's all the terminology and plot point spending that makes things tricky for new players and new GMs.
I've been GMing for 30+ years with just about every system going in that time and I wouldn't have a clue where to start with the game, but I'm willing to learn.
With a few house rules geared towards play by post play it might change my mind about putting more effort into the game.
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Post by takewithfood on May 18, 2012 10:52:15 GMT -5
Well, dk's New X-Men game is going fairly smoothly. I thought we would have to put in a lot of conditional "if X happens then I spend a PP to ignore it, unless Y happens in which case I...", but actually it hasn't been that complicated.
Usually a player posts their intended action and rolls dice; after the result is seen, they edit the post to declare their total and effect die, and spend any PP on the results, too, if they want. They also announce who they're intending to pass the turn to.
Then the Watcher posts a reaction roll and explains the result in a narrative fashion. Then the next player takes their turn, and so on.
As long as the Watcher is prepared to visit the site several times a day (email updates would be really helpful for some), and each player visits at least once a day, the game runs smoothly enough. You can expect one or two players to go per day, which honestly isn't any slower than most MURPG fights around here.
(Though I should say that I'm still accustomed to an old D&D community I used to play with where it was the norm for everyone to post at least once, or more like 2 to 5 times a day, and I still find this place achingly slow, but I just love everything else about the community. Seriously, if you forgot to post for more than a day, people started to worry that you'd died. lol)
Anyway, the system is very weird and confusing at first glance - even 2 pages into a fight in DK's game, we're still all making mistakes left and right, and that's only counting the ones we're managing to find; we're probably doing all sorts of things wrong without even noticing. lol But we're learning and I think everyone more or less has the hang of it by now. We have a good rhythm going.
I can't speak for everyone, but I know I learn best by doing. I think if we get some little one-shot introduction-style games going it will help people get used to the system. I think I'll start by running a few one-shots in a very typical, generic super hero setting.
~TWF
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Post by roxolid on May 18, 2012 11:39:44 GMT -5
I'm probably best served by reading through actual play threads (on this site or elsewhere?). Not so sure about the pacing of this place either. Back when I was running several games and playing in a few more (years ago now) on here it felt like a full time job to keep up (hence the burnout) D&D and 'levelling' games are I find a complete different kettle of fish. Because of the nature of play by post characters would rarely gain more than a level or two after years of play and players drop away over time. I play in a tunnels and trolls game online and after a year of every day posting one of my two characters has just levelled (to 2) and the other is a little way off. You don't get that 'levelling' problem with supers games as a whole (because they start out powerful and only gradually increase, if at all, over time) so I generally find they are better for the play by post format. Another niggle I had with Marvel Heroic is that it was the Cortex system modified to do supers, and sometimes one size doesn't fit all. Time will tell about the longevity of this game, but my gut says it will go the way of Marvel Universe, Marvel Saga and DC Universe. Liked by a few, but too 'different' to stay mainstream for long, whilst the likes of Mutants and Masterminds will be around for years with amazing support and a large fanbase (the atomic thinktank forum). Even Hero system has been knocking about for 25 years in various forms (Champions etc) but the crunch of that games character creation puts many new players off. Oops. Off topic ramble. Happens ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by takewithfood on May 18, 2012 13:19:55 GMT -5
Yeah, that was always our problem with PbP D&D. I had a system that awarded XP for all sorts of roleplaying situations (meeting important NPCs, having really epic discussions in-game, or even for a really well-done post) but even with that taken into account the furthest we got was a level 4 party making it to level 8 - and by then we'd lost two players and gained another, which dramatically changed the party makeup. It was also a little hard justifying characters gaining entire levels after only about two serious fights. The only experience I've had with the Cortex+ system is Marvel Heroic; I once glanced through the old Firefly/Serenity book, but I guess that was Cortex before the +? Anyway, I think it can adjust to fit a lot of different settings and game concepts if you're willing to reconsider the benchmarks for the various dice sizes, but the fact that you only really have four different levels is probably the biggest limiting factor. For gameplay examples, check out Dk's New X-Men game that is currently running; there is also an official example of play in .pdf format. I also found an audio example of play - an actual recording of a real game session - that was posted on this blog. Those last two helped me get a handle on things, at least. ~TWF
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Post by roxolid on May 18, 2012 13:55:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the links, will check those out.
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Post by takewithfood on May 19, 2012 9:22:53 GMT -5
I put up a Marvel Heroic folder for any branching discussions about the system. I'm working on some rule adaptations that I'll probably post there eventually. ~TWF
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Post by angel on May 24, 2012 0:19:10 GMT -5
My suggestion? Play it a few sessions before you go ahead and try to smooth out any rough edges you see in it just from reading it. You may find they're not as rough as you think. Cheers, Cam ok, ran my second session this past sunday, my impressions: 1) you have powers listed at d6 so why not specialities? 2) i'm missing something with the doom pool, do you add one after each scene? 3) the unorganization of the chapters really slows the game down. 4) the lack of initive rules, kinda makes the game chaotic. just sayin'. overally, the system has potential, but i'm not sure if i'm willing to stick with this as my long tern system. which is a shame, cause i love marvel.
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Post by Jet on Jun 9, 2012 6:28:38 GMT -5
So, I take it there wont be any more books? Shame, just when I was warming up to the system.
NVM, just saw the info on main page about Civil War. Honor recovered.
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Post by andyman on Jun 10, 2012 21:44:37 GMT -5
I played as Iron Fist in a game and came up with the following questions/issues.
1. Chi Healing allowed Iron Fist to heal physical stress any turn in addition to taking his regular action as long as he had a Power Point to spend. Is this correct? In game play, my IF was healing himself and others a lot more than in the comics.
2. When making an area attack against multiple targets with different levels of STRESS, what does the area affect attacker use for his stress advantage die? The stress of the one most hurt affected by the area attack or the stress of the strongest, or some kind of average? This came up a lot with multiple characters using area attacks against different groups.
3. the order for resolving area attacks can also result in reactions from area attacks stressing out the attacker before it is time to resolve some of the people affected by the attack. this seemed weird because we'd tell players that there was no point in using your effect die from a successful defense role to cause stress to the attacker, because the attacker got stressed out after the other two guys in the area attack did that.
Has anyone seen a site answering these questions/issues. Or if Cam is still around, could you answer please?
Thank you!
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Post by cambanks on Jun 19, 2012 22:09:07 GMT -5
1. Iron Fist's Chi Healing lets him add his Enhanced Stamina to rolls trying to help others recover during Transition Scenes etc. During an Action Scene, he can spend 1 PP to recover stress, but since his Stamina's die rating is d8, it can't help him as much as (say) Wolverine's healing factor that is based on his Godlike Stamina. When you use the PP option, you don't have to roll the dice but you can only get rid of a d8 or lesser stress immediately; if the stress is d10 or greater, it's stepped back by one.
2. Use the largest stress and largest complication out of everyone you're targeting, and add that to your dice pool when staging an area attack.
3. The order in which you resolve those area attacks is going to make a difference, yes. Also, don't forget that each time you use your reaction effect die to cause stress on your attacker, it costs you a PP (or it costs the Watcher doom dice). And if their attack effect die was larger than your reaction effect die, your effect die is stepped back by one.
Cheers, Cam
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Post by Brainstem on Jul 2, 2012 14:39:08 GMT -5
So when the Watcher wants to add an effect dice to the Doom Pool, what does he target? Say I'm running as Avalanche and want to cause some chaos by tearing up a city with an earthquake. There's no Doom Pool to roll against, so there's nothing for the Total to oppose. Would I just take one of the dice rolled and use that as the Effect to be added into the Doom Pool?
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 2, 2012 15:10:04 GMT -5
That's a good question, and I'm not sure about the answer either. For those wondering, the text in question is:
It does sound as though the roll is against a player, but I can easily imagine scenarios like the one you gave us, Brainy, where no player would be in direct opposition.
It's sort of a "tree falls in a forest" situation: If a villain causes some chaos, but there aren't any heroes around to stop it, does it trigger a reaction roll? lol
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Jul 2, 2012 15:15:37 GMT -5
So when the Watcher wants to add an effect dice to the Doom Pool, what does he target? Say I'm running as Avalanche and want to cause some chaos by tearing up a city with an earthquake. There's no Doom Pool to roll against, so there's nothing for the Total to oppose. Would I just take one of the dice rolled and use that as the Effect to be added into the Doom Pool? Well, normally he would just roll against the Doom Pool itself, but you're saying there is no Doom Pool, so I guess that just like a player would in that instance, he basically gets a free shot at it. Anything that doesn't roll a 1 is fair game LOL Situations where there is NO Doom Pool should be pretty rare, though. In our group, we House Ruled that the Doom Pool cannot be less than 2 dice (in other words, the Watcher cannot spend Doom Die unless he's got at least 3).
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