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Post by roxolid on Oct 21, 2011 8:28:51 GMT -5
I think those are the abilities I'd be happy with. - When attacking someone in melee, use Strength+Close Combat Stones+weapon modifier (if any)
- When attacking someone at range use Perception+Ranged Combat+Weapon Modifier
- When defending use Agility+Defensive Stones (with only limits on stones spent being the power level cap)
- Speed can be used as movement, optionally you can pay stones to use it as attack/defence up to power level cap
- Intelligence possibly used as a potential attack bonus (attacking 'smart' or targeting a specific weakness?) ?
- Will to be used as a mental defence (instead of intelligence) plus when you want to push an ability/action beyond previous limits
- Durability to act as damage reducer for physical attacks (but you need to pay for 'hardened' durability to defend against energy/guns/bombs/lethal attacks).
A 'tough skin' power could look like:
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 21, 2011 8:31:13 GMT -5
Ok, but you are about to start a flame war with your comments that I'm trying to avoid. To say that it's like robbing a bank is just bad. There ARE rules against robbing a bank, they're called laws. Robbing a bank is illegal. Min-Maxing within the rules is much more akin to making as much money as you can, even if it breaks the backs of the common man. . Okay, fine. The point is, it's an ethical question, and there's nothing wrong with asking players or anyone else to behave ethically.
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Post by roxolid on Oct 21, 2011 8:34:27 GMT -5
I don't like to see static caps in a game. It guarantees that every character created will be at that cap. Well the attack/defence cap would be variable, not static - you as a player can decide (when the character is made) what attack/defence split you want to have, or ignore it and go with the power level cap. Spiderman is more defensive than offensive so I'd expect something like a attack 12/Defence 14 split for him. Luke Cage is the other way, despite being bulletproof - he doesn't move quick so I'd expect attack 15/defence 11 or so. Same level character, different attack/defence splits. M&M does that (I'm not a great fan of the game - it's ok - but it does have some good ideas)
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Post by roxolid on Oct 21, 2011 8:38:44 GMT -5
Ok, but you are about to start a flame war with your comments that I'm trying to avoid. To say that it's like robbing a bank is just bad. There ARE rules against robbing a bank, they're called laws. Robbing a bank is illegal. Min-Maxing within the rules is much more akin to making as much money as you can, even if it breaks the backs of the common man. . Okay, fine. The point is, it's an ethical question, and there's nothing wrong with asking players or anyone else to behave ethically. Well we're all adult enough here not to descend into an ethics debate about a game I hope, but that's the point of a role playing game - you can play a role you wouldn't normally play, regardless of your own personal moral/ethical code. I'm sure I never met anyone who killed anyone to take all their stuff (tm) for example. In D&D, all my characters are mass murderers, doesn't mean that I am I play D&D so I can play a guy who hacks up other creatures with his sword+2 flames on command and takes their stuff to increase his chances of hacking up other things to take their stuff too. Hmmm. That's probably why I don't play D&D any more (or WOW) but let's stay on topic - I'm drifting too...
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Post by Gryphynx on Oct 21, 2011 8:48:08 GMT -5
Ok, but you are about to start a flame war with your comments that I'm trying to avoid. To say that it's like robbing a bank is just bad. There ARE rules against robbing a bank, they're called laws. Robbing a bank is illegal. Min-Maxing within the rules is much more akin to making as much money as you can, even if it breaks the backs of the common man. . Okay, fine. The point is, it's an ethical question, and there's nothing wrong with asking players or anyone else to behave ethically. The problem is that you are trying to define ethics. In our games, the players and gm alike all made "well optimized" characters. It was no big deal, and it was just as fun. When you GM, trying to reign the players to fit your ethics... not the worst thing in the world. But we're trying to create a game for the masses here, we don't go worrying about if some players will optimize their characters. We instead worry if an optimized character would be unbalanced with certain builds. If the general premise is that a percent of all actions can have a certain level of "freebies", should the player opt for that, then the balance is in the fact that it's global. Yeah, most players will quickly learn to use modifiers and only exert their energy in dire times. Learning to play a game doesn't make it broken.
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 21, 2011 9:10:05 GMT -5
The problem is that you are trying to define ethics. In our games, the players and gm alike all made "well optimized" characters. It was no big deal, and it was just as fun. Actually, I agree with this, and that's my point. A system is at it's best when it allows people to "optimize" to some degree, but at the same time doesn't punish players and groups who don't want to do so.
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 21, 2011 9:13:46 GMT -5
Oh, and on a less confrontational note... if you guys are serious about working this all out, might I recommend you create a thread in the MURPG 2.0 section, or the Rules Discussion section?
That way, it's sort of where it belongs, and it'll (maybe) get you more "directed" traffic... that is to say, people specifically interested in contributing rather than people randomly clicking on the thread because it's in a section they usually read and it's got new posts.
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Post by roxolid on Oct 21, 2011 10:06:40 GMT -5
I think we're still at the bouncing ideas around at this stage rather than knuckling down to write anything. If there are a bunch of people who are serious about coming to a common ground to agree on mechanics and sharing the workload, maybe we can send the call out to join us in the MURPG 2.0 area.
Are there enough people who can dedicate some time to chipping in and play testing/writing stuff out, testing some more, trying to break it? Then if it all hangs together, put it into a PDF with conversions of all the Marvel Universe characters?
If so it might be worth putting the call out and starting to get some draft notes put up.
If people would rather stick with the game 'as is' it'd end up as one or two peoples' house rule project and there are other things I can devote my time to rather than put something out that no one uses.
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 21, 2011 10:12:24 GMT -5
Yeah, that goes back to what TWF and I were talking about earlier. The previous project just kind of lost steam as the main people working on it realized we wouldn't come to a consensus that would make everyone happy, so it was better to just let people house rule the stuffing out of the old system.
Still, if you guys do decide to work on it, there is a place for that. Or you can do it in this thread, whatever suits you (probably easier to organize if you have multiple threads, though)
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Post by takewithfood on Oct 21, 2011 11:34:36 GMT -5
I think that if you put a Spidey's Guide-style PDF out, people would play it - but they would still house rule it like we do with everything else. ^__^
It really is nice to bounce these ideas off each other, though. WK, Dio, Neros, and others have really helped me develop the rules I like to use in my own games. (Which reminds me, I need to run a game soon.)
~TWF
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Post by roxolid on Oct 21, 2011 11:37:21 GMT -5
I think before anything else was decided people should butt in with a list of everything they dislike/hate about the MURPG and see if there's enough to warrant a new edition with people chipping in. Is there some means of polling everyone on the board to get an opinion or PMing everyone with a 'are you interested in helping with... what would you like to see changed/added/dropped... what do you really like about... hate about... don't care about... the game in its current form'
If there's enough interest it may well be worth doing.
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Post by Gryphynx on Oct 21, 2011 12:06:18 GMT -5
I'd suggest no Speed. Speed like QuickSilvers should be an actual Power/Action, not an ability, and pretty much every manner in which its used in the MURPG is an Action that can add to a couple other Actions. As a power you can add 'feats' to it at costs. (and it should be more about extra actions than anything else I think...) I don't think Perception should be a Ranged Combat bonus. I have some of the best vision in the world, and I can't aim for crap. Attributes give bonuses because they're innate, and there's nothing innate about humans and ranged attacks. Ducking/dodging as Agility, sure. Damage from Strength, solid. Durability to soak, of course. Dexterity for attacking, you don't need any skill to do that. But not ranged... Dexterity vs Agility to hit (Agility as Modifier to dodge) Strength vs Durability to damage (Durability as Modifier to soak) Will you have to be careful with... That kinda covers the whole mental versions of Agility, Dexterity, Strength and Durability... Maybe better to instead match toe for toe on Attributes, or not use Mental Attributes at all. If you ignore mental attributes, you make it all into skills/actions. Nothing mental (more than what an animal could/would do) would get the "modifier" for the Attribute. So, my recommendations... Strength, Agility, Dexterity, Durability.
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Post by roxolid on Oct 21, 2011 12:46:03 GMT -5
Perception per se would cover not only vision, but hearing, smell, taste and other senses, plus how well the character interprets the information they receive. Take Batman - he rarely misses a trick, whereas even sharp eyed police officers stumble past the clues he spots. When it comes to throwing a batarang he can judge the path, speed, and direction of a target, whereas most of us have trouble hitting a static target. He has a level of Perception/natural ability that even Green Arrow (another guy with a 'good eye') would nod in appreciation of. Heck, Batmans' is probably higher than Green Arrows, it's just that Arrow has a higher Ranged combat skill. Perception would be used for spotting clues, anything out of the ordinary, sensing a trap (Captain America would have a decent Perception. Oh yeah, he's a crack shot with the shield too...) Having only combat stats boils the game down from an RPG to a wargame - may as well play with a grid and figures :S Aside from finding clues, spotting traps, shooting and getting an idea about ambushes, Perception would separate melee/missile combat stats up. Having a high dex makes you a good fighter, but might not make you the worlds best shot. Hawkeye can justifiably say that he's a better shot than just about any other character, has fantastic vision and natural ability, but he's not a better fighter than Captain America. I know actions cover those things, I just think Perception has a place in the game. Same for Intelligence and Mental strength. Spiderman is smart, but his willpower is even more impressive. Wolverine is very mentally tough, but has only a practical level of intelligence - fixing cars and 'snikt, bubbing' are his thing, not inventing or doing crossword puzzles. Agree on speed. That can be covered with an action. Agility can define a movement rate but to move quicker than someone else you'll need a power. I think stats this way (as I listed, with the changes of Dex for Speed) help describe and round out characters as something other than a bunch of numbers to say how well they fight. Pus there may be a case for stating charisma as a statistic too, or maybe as an Action. Most people can get on with one another. Few can lead a group, an army, a country. Captain America is one such person, Superman another, Batman on a smaller level another leader. Even the wasp - charming, flirtatious, always looks her best, has made an effective leader and diplomat (not all Avengers comics are about punching peoples teeth in) I'll continue to think up ways to grind you down Sphynx - resistance is futile (Any excuse to get a picture of 7 of 9 in )
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Post by roxolid on Oct 21, 2011 12:54:08 GMT -5
Oh, and I think there should be some kind of 'mook' rules. How many times have we seen Thor or <insert ultra strong character> send flying a bunch of goons? Gotta be a way of doing that. Maybe... Strength+Close Combat used as an area attack within 2m. All in range suffer from the attack but gain a modifier to their defence of +1 per target the ultra strong guy goes for after the first. E.g. Hulk attacks with 13 stones. He whacks five Hydra goons. Every one after the first adds +1 defensive stone so all of the Hydra goons get +4 defence. Bah. it won't make any difference, he'll still smash the morons!
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Post by Brainstem on Oct 21, 2011 12:58:34 GMT -5
I think a lot of these changes you're proposing are just doing things MURPG already does.
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