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Post by ironfox on Feb 17, 2012 22:50:35 GMT -5
OK, so I've been playing in MM3 for not quite a year now and I've been loving it but there are some things that are starting to bug me.
I think in many ways its far more corruptible than MURPG and has quite a few unnecessary or nearly unnecessary abilities.
One big example of unnecessary abilities is Dexterity. There's no reason to buy the expensive Dex ability unless you plan to utilize absolutely EVERYTHING that uses Dex and even then it's barely worth the buy. And if you're just wanting to play someone who's wicked good with a particular ranged weapon, drop your dex to -5 and use the 10 points you get back to give yourself a 20 in that skill which, because of your -5 dex, will be 15. Great, now you technically haven't spent anything at all, have a near-cap skill, and your -5 dex hurts you in literally no way.
Another thing I've noticed is how easy it is to negate someones powers or abilities with what are oftentimes CHEAPER powers.
Example: OK, I'm Corrosion, I corrode stuff. That's my thing. I purchased Nullify (toughness) at a 10 and I throw a few extras on there, it's my thing after all. Maybe I put area of effect and contagious on there, so my power cost me 30 points.
OK now I go to fight the Observer (I know these names are lame) who has put most of his points into his heightened vision but also gave himself a high toughness. Well that's cool, I eat away at toughness, that's my thing, but wait, no, the Observer has bought the "Innate" extra with his toughness. I cannot damage his toughness at all whatsoever. And how much did this extra cost the Observer? 1 point. That's it. 1 point into his toughness and he negates my 30 point power.
Lame sauce.
I bring this up because I am about to start a new game in the DC universe and I'm getting frustrated at some of these glaring oversights.
Just wanted to share my frustration.
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Post by Jet on Feb 18, 2012 3:48:30 GMT -5
No matter what system you use, there is always a way to negate those thing.
1. About dexterity- you mentioned that its not a good choice to use in combat. Fair enough. Then have them face somethign different then combat instead- traps, defusing bombs, riding cars, climbing or anything that requires dexterity.
Example: Im running Scion for my friends in RL. When I said that my games "tend to have a lot of fighting", they decided to put EVERYTHING into combat skills- they all picked physical attributes as their primary choice, their relics are mostly weapons and NONE of them put anything into stuff like science, investigation, control (vehicles) or survival (one did, but it was mandatory). They cut through enemies like butter in first game, I was devastated.
Next game, a big part wasnt beating the crap out of things, but first finding a missing teammate. They knew where he lived and that was the last time he went, but after that- nothing. They had crappy investigation rolls and no powers that could trace him. They all instantly regretted it.
Solution for you: if something seems unlikely to be used, make it useful.
2. Well, unless you like to play PvP, that shouldnt be a problem, becouse, you know... characters vs GM? And GM makes enemies that are supposed to be a challange and not overpowered specialised impossible fights?
Also, your example- corrosion. There are plenty of things you can do with it that doesnt include even touching the enemy. In fact, as a superhero, why would you touch someone with death touch? Instead, how about a pillar above your enemy? Or a bridge he's standing on? Be creative, damnit- just becouse you dont deal damage doesnt mean you cant beat him! If anything, Mutants and Masterminds should be a game where creative use of mundane powers should be a priority. Want to hit something untill its dead? Play DnD.
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 18, 2012 6:40:43 GMT -5
... clearly no need for me here, Playah did well all around.
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Post by shenron on Feb 18, 2012 11:52:28 GMT -5
Yep, me either.
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Post by ironfox on Feb 18, 2012 19:36:21 GMT -5
I see your point but... these are superheroes we're dealing with. Unless I make new actions in the game that revolve around Dex they just aren't going to need it. It controls ranged combat, vehicles and slight of hand. That's it. Most of them can fly, no need for vehicles. Slight of hand is just not going to be needed much and ranged combat is cheaper to buy without Dex. I could take their flight away but no for long, I hate when a GM nix's my abilities when they can't work around them, so I wouldn't do the same.
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 18, 2012 20:16:49 GMT -5
I see your point but... these are superheroes we're dealing with. Unless I make new actions in the game that revolve around Dex they just aren't going to need it. It controls ranged combat, vehicles and slight of hand. That's it. Most of them can fly, no need for vehicles. Slight of hand is just not going to be needed much and ranged combat is cheaper to buy without Dex. I could take their flight away but no for long, I hate when a GM nix's my abilities when they can't work around them, so I wouldn't do the same. But "nixing" as you call it, or "negation" is a standard part of the super hero genre. It's not just dramatically appropriate AND genre appropriate, it's the way the system is designed to work. You're basically saying that the system has a problem because YOU don't want to run the game the way it's designed. |
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Post by ironfox on Feb 18, 2012 20:31:38 GMT -5
But "nixing" as you call it, or "negation" is a standard part of the super hero genre. It's not just dramatically appropriate AND genre appropriate, it's the way the system is designed to work. You're basically saying that the system has a problem because YOU don't want to run the game the way it's designed. Nixing powers every so often is fine and it does fit in with the genera SOMETIMES but it can't become the way you deal with the PCs on the regular. |
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Post by Jet on Feb 19, 2012 4:34:00 GMT -5
Some heroes just dont need dexterity- period. Scarlet Witch, Doctor Strange, Iron Man or Hulk just plain dont need it, that much is obvious (although you could argue about Hulk). If someone has a character that doesnt need some abilities- fine. But if they dont pick it up becouse its cheaper to get other stuff- that is just BS on both parts of GM and players, who exploit such thing. Thats hardly something I can help you with.
Okay, rant time, becouse I keep hearing that everywhere and I just cant stand it anymore. People keep on going about "why do X-Men/Aengers need a plane if they can fly anyway? they can carry non-fliers and not bother with piloting", which is the biggest bu!!sh!t I have ever heard. Here's a couple of reasons WHY vehicles arent completely useless:
1. Not everyone can fly. Not everyone wants to play a flier, becouse seriously- why would Hawkeye need a flight? His "normality" makes him more badass.
2. Carrying others? Convenient to have... untill you have to get across the globe and fly for days straight over a fraggin ocean.
3. Also, do you know what happens to carried teammates when carier gets shot? A big "plum" (not the fruit) is in order.
4. Watch an episode of X-men. What do they do "inside" of Blackbird? Briefings. When there's no time for briefing in base, you can do it inside the plane. Not really an option when everyone is flying and air gets into your ears.
5. Innocent bystanders sometimes need an escort.
6. It usually comes equiped with some serious firepower. Kinda handy when one of our teammates has more subtle, non combat powers in critical moments.
7. Its a good place to store supplies for longer trips.
8. Or serve as a resting place. Floor of a plane is still better then sleeping in wilderness.
9. When everything fails, jacking it with explosives and flying straight at eldricht abomination is a damn cool way to deal some damage. Just remember to hit eject in right time.
10. Your team is just way cooler when you can say "My group has a cool plane".
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Post by roxolid on Feb 19, 2012 12:09:38 GMT -5
If I could fly, I wouldn't do it all the time. It rains a lot in Britain, and a lot of the time, it's bloody cold and windy too. So unless I was immune to getting p!ssed off, I'd think about jumping into a nice warm cosy vehicle that probably travels faster than my flight anyway. If you were immune to all that stuff (Superman, most JLA fliers) that wouldn't be so bad.
Wonder Woman wouldn't look anywhere near as glamorous if the weather was lousy whilst she was flying. Luckily it's always sunny and warm in the comics, so she can swan about, half naked and not look like she's been dragged through a hedge backwards.
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Post by ironfox on Feb 19, 2012 12:38:40 GMT -5
I love badassed normals. I love Hawkeye. Maybe I'm just a pushover GM. All but one of the players have flight. Pretty damn fast flight at that. The one who doesn't have flight has teleportation albeit at a much lower score.
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Post by kito on Feb 20, 2012 3:52:42 GMT -5
Also as far as a plain goes much easier to move around UN-noticed in a actual vehicle then ruining around super fast or flying cant really sneak up on any 1 when they can see you coming form miles away by radar or on the news running 200Km/hr on the hwy way.
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Post by ironfox on Feb 20, 2012 22:33:20 GMT -5
My gripe isn't so much that you can jip the system. You can jip any system. But like with my Dex example, you can build Hawkeye without putting a single point in Dex and it would look like Hawkeye in play. Sounds kinda petty but I'm a bit of a truest. If a character, like Hawkeye, would have a Dex of 7, I think they should have a Dex of 7, not Dex 0 and save those points for Ranged Attack.
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Post by kito on Feb 21, 2012 0:33:54 GMT -5
then give them dex 7 and not dex 0 XD it all up to the gm in the end tho. maby he will MAKE u get hi dex if you sould use HI dex to make the hero less power lvling? idk wut it called. in the end tho it alwas gm rulez if u dont like them find a gm whoes rulez u do like.
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Post by kito on Feb 21, 2012 0:35:59 GMT -5
Also if u find it unfair then talk to your gm about your concerns, communication is the best part about games like this unlike video games where you have to follow there rulz and beat things there way u can always find a way to make players happy if you talk with them.
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Post by Jet on Feb 21, 2012 2:43:59 GMT -5
My gripe isn't so much that you can jip the system. You can jip any system. But like with my Dex example, you can build Hawkeye without putting a single point in Dex and it would look like Hawkeye in play. Sounds kinda petty but I'm a bit of a truest. If a character, like Hawkeye, would have a Dex of 7, I think they should have a Dex of 7, not Dex 0 and save those points for Ranged Attack.  |
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