Can Challenges be bought off using LoEs?

[karielthornwynd]

I've looked over the 3 books (+the unofficial 4th one). Anyone have any idea whether Challenges can (or even should) be able to be bought off using Lines of Experience? If so, any thoughts on price? Would be happy to hear your ideas.

[Dionon]

According to RAW (Rules As Written) Challenges can't be bought off at all except at GM Fiat.

Personally I can see getting new flaws to replace the old ones as a way to get rid of a flaw. Using LoE to get rid of flaws isn't a bad way to do it either as LoE represent personal growth of the character. Some flaws (like Blindness) shouldn't be able to be bought off with LoE, but I can't see why a flaw like "Can't Drive" couldn't be bought off as the character learns how to drive a car or something. It would be up to the GM however to determine what flaws can be bought off and what flaws can't be. As for Cost, I'd say the same as building up your actions 10 LoE per point of flaw.

[malice]

I don't know that there's anything official, and there definitely isn't any kind of lines-to-stones exchange rate.

I can think of a few ways to do it though. If you have an AN of 4 for example, you could spend 10 stones to buy off 1 stone of a challenge. The AN would not rise at all, you're just using the action as a way of giving the lines stone value. They don't have a fixed value because the cost of raising actions is graduated rather than linear, which is the trouble of buying off challenges with lines.

Could you later spend 10 lines to buy off 5 stones of a challenge (once your action hit cost level 10)? Of course. Because spending those 10 lines on reducing a challenge instead of raising a badass action is worth 5 stones. This also means the that maximum value a line of experience ever achieves is .5 stones. That's the max though, and you don't deserve that rate before you've put the effort in to have something better.

Finally, you couldn't just buy off most challenges for something as nondescript as lines. The whole point of challenges is that they shape your character and they're relevant. So there's no way in hell you're spending 10 lines to just eliminate a deadly enemy from your list of deadly enemies. You COULD however spend those lines after a mission in which you worked with that enemy toward a common goal, and they would represent an honest off-panel peacemaking effort on your part.

As for something like eliminating a blindness challenge, a haunted past, or a psychological disorder, I would easily allow that assuming you could make a compelling in-game argument for them. I would especially encourage heroes to get over their stupid emo pasts and their worthless Kleptomania. It's very obvious they just wanted stones and they lacked creativity, so I am glad to see them waste their hard-earned lines patching their idiotic character.

Please note that you're not really supposed to get rid of challenges that often though. You're supposed to accumulate them. Eliminating them is a lot like removing dimensions from your character and going against the point of playing them over time.*

*There are some challenges that are valid targets for deletion. For example the rules very stupidly state that if you acquire one of the viruses in-game then you don't get stones. That's bullshit. So cure the hell out of them. Also if your blindness was inflicted by a vicious baddie gouging out your eyes, getting new ones is OK (Although I usually use the challenge stones to buy super-cool extra senses).

[Ricochet]

According to the Guide to the Hulk and the Avengers 1 white stone costs 6 LoE.

I would suggest DM discretion. Obviously, This doesn't work on the Mutant challenge. If a player wants to get rid of a psychological challenge, he could earn lines toward that goal by roleplaying.

[karielthornwynd]

Thanks for all your guys suggestions. Any idea on what page that thing in Hulk book was on? It sounds like it may be what I'm looking for.

[Ricochet]

Page 45. Adding new options by lines.

[karielthornwynd]

I have another question related to Challenges that's probably more of an opinion. What's a reasonable amount (or range) of Challenge stones for a 40 stone character? Or perhaps a number not to exceed?

[Manah]

About your original question, my two cents is this:

The books don't really confirm it. I say 10 LoEs is more than enough to be worth reducing a Challenge by -1. As the others have noted, some challenges shouldn't go down unless the story support it, and others may be more difficult to lower than others. so GM's call on what can be lowered or not. It's all a matter of how the GM works, in fact, but I think that just as it's possible to get better at something, it should be equally possible (and not more expensive) to get less worse at something. Hence the 10 LoEs per -1 cost IMO. It's fair, it's simple, it works. I've been using this for years and never had a problem with any player.

Mar 9, 2014 18:03:48 GMT -5 karielthornwynd said:

I have another question related to Challenges that's probably more of an opinion. What's a reasonable amount (or range) of Challenge stones for a 40 stone character? Or perhaps a number not to exceed?

As for this, it depends on the setting, and again, GM's call. Some will say it's unlikely anybody normal might have more than 5-10 Challenges.

I, on the other hand, disagree with this wholeheartedly.

My personal opinion on the matter is that most people are more in the -10 to -20 range. Seriously. People are a lot more messed up than they let on, so when one gets to really know others, one finds out that Challenges in real life build up fast. It's not a bad thing, by the way, it's just how people are (my personal list of challenges exceed the -20s, but I'm probably an exception, lol). At any rate, I've personally come to like 15 stones of Challenges max (in terms of stones discount) as perfectly reasonable. People can take less if they want, but if they make them complex, with varied and interesting challenges, they get a good deal out of it. And as far as I've come to understand the world, it's also pretty close to realism.

Now, if the game you're making is high on drama, you might want it higher than that. Or on the opposite, if it revolves around individuals with fairly normal/boring lives until something special happens, maybe lower the Challenges count a bit. It depends.

Against, just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary by opinions. ^_^