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D&D 1
Jan 14, 2007 17:30:18 GMT -5
Post by dorkknight23 on Jan 14, 2007 17:30:18 GMT -5
(DK enters his Lieber-geek mode) The Mouser a 3 strength? Even by conventional Marvel measures he has a 2, tops. I could even argue giving him a 1. He's pure finesse and skill, 3 agility definitely and Intelligence in the 4 area and great Close Combat (4-5), but I wouldn't give him a high Strength. Fafhrd's the muscle on their team.
But, yeah, this was actually a big thrust of converting these rules. I think the easiest way to figure out those sorts of conversions is to also factor in size.
For example, let's say in d20 terms, a 20th level Human Fighter who read whatever Tome increases Strength by 6 and used all his stat increases to boost his Strength could feasibly have a Strength somewhere in the 26-29 range. Let's say, for the sake of argument, he has a Strength of 28, and can lift up to 1200 pounds above his head, the equivalent of a Strength of 4, a fitting Strength level for a legendary fighter to pull some pretty legendary feats of strength.
Now, let's consider a standard Huge-sized Storm Giant with a Stregth of 39. He can lift 33,600 lbs above his head (1400*4*6), which is the equivalent of 16.8 tons, which covers a Strength of 7.
I like your ideas, but my goal is not to totally break down the system and remake it. Just change what's totally unusable for fantasty-style games (the magic system, Wisdom and Charisma, those sorts of things) and keep what I can, because I am of the axiom "if it ain't broke."
Now you've got me thinking. Okay, to prove what I've come up with so far works, I'm going to come up with a series of different characters, each under different themes, to prove I can make characters fit the archetypes of "warrior" "thief" "mage" and so on, without being identical blocks of stats.
More details as they develop.
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D&D 1
Jan 14, 2007 17:38:59 GMT -5
Post by t0mahawk on Jan 14, 2007 17:38:59 GMT -5
To be honest I can't remember where I saw Mousers stats once - 2nd edition D&D I think, with a 16 or 17. Fafhrd (I said Conan cause I couldn't spell faffered!) had 18/90 something I think, which makes Mouser still pretty much stronger than average (and if I recall fafreds stats were either just behind on everything else or in the case of Con, a fair bit ahead. I think he had something like 17 dex and was just behind Mousy boy as a thief, miles ahead as a fighter. They were all dual class fighter/thief types anyway. Which I could remember which sourcebook, but it's been, literally, decades since I played 2E regular.)
I'm not sure I agree with the 3E+ increasing of stats thing anyway. If someone gets more experienced as a fighter, even if they do bench press more, it won't make 'em superhuman, but this is a fantasy game *rips up the reality rulebook and lobs it out the window* so what the heck.
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D&D 1
Jan 14, 2007 17:59:54 GMT -5
Post by t0mahawk on Jan 14, 2007 17:59:54 GMT -5
Ahhh, there we go.
(D&D geek head on)
Grey Mouser 11 Fighter 15 Thief 3 Magic User S16 I18 W14 D19 C17 Ch18
Fathnud (still can't get it right) 15 Ranger 13 Thief 5 Bard S18/00 I17 W14 D18 C18 CH17
So as a 13th level Thief with 18 Dex he ain't that far behind Mouser, and Mouser with 16 str can press (flip flip) 195lbs when a 10-11 str guy can press 115 (and Fafthud can press 480. )So lessee. On 'my' chart Mouser is at 4 and Fathnud is at ... 6? The normal guy aould be at 2. It's not a perfect measure - str 12- 15 are lost in a blur of 3-4 on this chart, but I guess it's better than *everyone* having 2 or 3, regardless.
Anyhow, I look forward to seeing your interpretations/rules changes. I would never criticise another player for writing/using their own interpretations of rules, especially if they work!!!
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D&D 1
Jan 14, 2007 19:34:58 GMT -5
Post by dorkknight23 on Jan 14, 2007 19:34:58 GMT -5
Oh yeah, that write-up was in that one 2E write-up with the Newhon gods. Legends and Lore? Dieties and Demigods? Something and something? Something and something like that.
I...don't necessarily think it's the best interpretation of their stats, and I also doubt Lieber/Harry Otto Fischer had any hand in figuring out those numbers (and they could probably work better in Epic 3.5. Wizard/Rogue/Fighter and Bard/Ranger/Rogue in some combination.) I'm trying to think of something impressive strengthwise the Mouser did and am drawing a blank. So, still, I have an issue with it. I guess the strength was bumped up to make him a more impressive swordsman, since these were the days pre-Weapon Finesse.
(Never in all my days did I ever expect having this discussion...)
Anyway, I'll get some write-ups up tonight/tomorrow/the coming week, and try to keep up the fine tuning.
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D&D 1
Jan 15, 2007 0:54:57 GMT -5
Post by t0mahawk on Jan 15, 2007 0:54:57 GMT -5
Well I had to delve deep into the archives for 1e version of the book and 'Nehwon mythos' (or however it's spelt) so the 3e version would be different for sure. On some fanboy sites the initial agreement between Fritz lieber (or however you spell it, sigh) was between him and Gary Gygax, not him and TSR, so when Gygax got the boot, Fritz said "no more lankymar" (or however etc)... apparently.
Anyway. Ummm slightly off topic - good luck with it!
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D&D 1
Jan 15, 2007 23:27:53 GMT -5
Post by dorkknight23 on Jan 15, 2007 23:27:53 GMT -5
Some Example Writeups, part 1: Warriors
These are 3 diverse characters I was able to think up trying to use the new rules. I tried to cover a lot of ground in terms of races, alignments, and possible ways to also blur the lines sometimes caused by the class system in D&D.
Name: Ghashka (“Gosh”) Brokenblade
Height: 5’11 Weight: 160 lbs. Eye Color: Yellow Hair Color: Black Species: Half-Orc Alignment: Chaotic Neutral Class: Barbarian/Rogue
Abilities Int 3 Str 3 Agi 3 Spd 3 Dur 3
Health: 3 Energy: 9
Actions: Close Combat 3 (Strength bonus or Weapon Modifier; Streetfighting, Dirty Tricks, Swordsmanship) Thieving 3 (Agility bonus; Con Artist, Moving Silently, Sleight of Hand/Pickpocket) Social Skills 4 (Orcish language/culture, Streetwise, Charm, Professional Thief) Showmanship 2 (Singing, Dancing) Gambling 3 (Intelligence bonus [Agility bonus if cheating]; Spot cheating, Dice Games, Card Games) Rage 2
Modifiers: Mental Defenses (+3) Enhanced Vision 3 (See in Darkness) Reflexive Dodge (+1) Charisma (+2)
Equipment: Longsword: (+2) Weapon Modifier Leather Armor: (+1) to Defense
Challenges: Half-Orc Haunted Past 1 Compulsion to Stick up for the Underdog 3
Growing up on the mean streets of Thesk made Ghashka (“Gosh” to his friends) cunning. He had what you could stereotypically call an Orcish temper, but he had plenty to vent about. His mother, a long-suffering Cleric of Ilmater died when he was a child (she had come with child after an unfortunate incident attempting to convert the orcs in the mountains,) and he spent a small time in a foundling home for children run by the church. He fled the home and took to the streets. There, he lived a life as a hustler, lying, cheating, and fighting his way to as close to the top of the heap as he could manage. However, by the time he came of age, he found himself bored with life in Thesk, with little to really hold him back (even the few friends he had were ready to move on.) So, Gosh packed his feeble possessions and headed out to make his fortune in the lands beyond.
Name: Sir Danforth ir’Morrow of The Silver Flame
Height: 5’3 Weight: 140 lbs. Eye Color: Green Hair Color: Red Species: Dwarf Alignment: Lawful Good Class: Paladin
Abilities Int 2 Str 2 Agi 1 Spd 1 Dur 3
Health 3 Energy 9
Actions: Close Combat 2 (Strength bonus or Weapon Modifier; Smite Evil [2x damage to evil creatures only]; Swordsmanship, Mounted Combat) Ranged Combat 3 (Weapon Modifier; Longbow, Trick Shots, Precise Shots) Social Skills 2 (Dwarven Nobility, Silver Flame Protocol) Leadership 2 Divine Magic 1 Magical Healing 2 Horsemanship 3
Modifiers: Charisma: (+3) Wisdom: (+1) Toughness (+1) Enhanced Vision 1 (See in Darkness) Magical Resistance (+1) Poison Resistance (+2)
Equipment: Bastard Sword: (+2) Close Weapon Modifier Longbow: (+2) Ranged Weapon Modifier, Arrows as appropriate Breastplate: (+2) to Defense
Challenges: Dwarf Extreme Hubris 2
Sir Danforth ir’Morrow was born in the Mror Holds of Eberron to the noble house of ir’Morrow. The youngest of 7 children, Danforth was expected of very little, up to and including his conversion to the Church of the Silver Flame. His parents were concerned, but not to the point of disowning their child. Danforth found his calling as a Paladin, one he feels especially capable as an archer and an agent of proselytizing the cause of the Flame. His training in Thrane completed, Danforth heads towards Sharn, on special assignment as a personal envoy to the head priest of the Flame there. It is a prestigious assignment, one he takes very seriously.
Name: Avilas Moondrinker
Height: 5’11 Weight: 110 lbs. Eye Color: Amber Hair Color: Blonde Species: Elven Alignment: Neutral Class: Swashbuckler/Sorcerer
Abilities Int 5 (i) Str 1 Agi 3 Spd 2 Dur 2
Health 2 Energy 10 (i)
Actions: Close Combat 3 (Agility bonus or Weapon Modifier; Swordsmanship, Feinting, Agile Ripostes) Social Skills 3 (Elven language/culture, Witty Banter, Seduction) Acrobatics 3 (Strength bonus) Magic 1 (Magical Travel, Figment Spells, Charm Spells, Detection, Scrying, Enhancement Spells)
Modifiers: Reflexive Dodge (+1) Charisma (+2) (can also add to Defense [+3 to cost])
Equipment: Rapier: (+2) Weapon Modifier
Challenges: Elf Swashbuckler’s Luck 5 (action and adventure have a way of happening at the most inconvenient times)
An elf of noble descent born in the High Forests, Avilas had an undue fascination with humans and their city life. At a comparatively young ago (around 100) he embarked upon a quest to the cities. He has an innate knack for magic (which he has yet to fully explore,) as well as a way with wordplay and steel. Despite his worldliness, he is still but a child in Elvish terms, he’s immature, a bit girlcrazy, a carouser, and has the habit of getting into trouble at the most inconvenient of times. But he is a true friend, a truer ally, and will be quick to jump to a friend’s defense.
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D&D 1
Jan 23, 2007 14:06:56 GMT -5
Post by dorkknight23 on Jan 23, 2007 14:06:56 GMT -5
Specialized Knowledge Cost = Action Number
If you want something like General Knowledge, but applying to a specific topic, this is the action for you. Covers Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (Local), Knowledges (Nature/Dungeoneering/The Planes) or any other Knowledge specialty in D&D.
Intelligence bonus included.
Comments: For anyone who really, really, wants to know a lot about Dungeoneering.
Example: Vadania the Druid has Nature Lore at AN 5. She can tell you about the mating habits of the Northern Speckled Titmouse, but she couldn’t tell you anything about the Orcs who eat the bird’s eggs, or why Red Dragons breathe fire, or anything not doing specifically with the natural world.
Spell-Like Abilities This works similarly to the Energy Weapon Systems “Extra Functions,” except the limit to the Modifier Number does not apply. Take a basic action costing +0 called “Spell Like Ability” and add the cost level to the action (minimum +1).
Immune to Energy 10 flat stones
One type: Fire, Acid, Cold, Electricity, Sonic.
Specific Energy Resistance: Cost Level = Modifier Number -1
Fire resistance, Acid Resistance, Cold Resistance, Electricity Resistance, Sonic Resistance.
Damage Reduction Cost Level = Modifier Number +4
Removes 1 stone per modifier number from non-energy based attacks like Toughness, but can be negated by a specific source (Cold Iron, Silver, Magic Weapons, Lawful Weapons, Evil Weapons, Good Weapons, Chaotic Weapons, Epic Weapons, etc.)
For Slashing Weapons, Bludgeoning Weapons, or Piercing Weapons, increase the cost level by +1.
For each other option that is required increase the cost by +1.
For example, the Rakshasa has Damage Reduction 3 towards Good and Piercing, meaning he removes 3 stones of damage from weapon attacks that are not caused by good piercing weapons (like a blessed crossbow bolts.) This cost a total of 15 white stones (3+4+1+1+1=cost level 10.)
Currently considering: Given the rarity of firearms in most D&D campaigns, I would say ranged weapons like arrows would only cause normal damage unless specifically enchanted. It’s up the DM should he include firearms if other ranged weapons should do 2x damage.
Thrown objects and weapons will still cause 2x damage.
New Option for Arcane Magic: Armored Casting: (+2) to Cost Level Can wear armor and cast spells at the same time. Otherwise, you’ll have to drop the chain mail, or trade it to the fighter.
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D&D 1
Jan 23, 2007 14:07:23 GMT -5
Post by dorkknight23 on Jan 23, 2007 14:07:23 GMT -5
Monster stats for the iconic Colossal Great Wyrm Red Dragon.
Great Wyrm Red Dragon
Height: Weight: Eye Color: Yellow Hair Color: Red Scales (No Hair) Species: Dragon (Red)
Abilities: Int: 6 Str: 10 Agi: 1 Spd: 1 Dur: 8
White: 8 Red: 24
Actions: Close Combat 4 (Strength bonus only; Clawing, Biting, Wings, Tails) Fire Breath Weapon 8 (2x damage) Frightful Presence (Fear) 6 Flight 2 (Limited Maneuverability) Magic 9 (Fire Spells, Electric Spells, Acid Spells, Sonic Spells, Cold Spells, Divinations, Charms, Compulsions, Domination, Abjuration, Figments, Glamers, Shadow Spells, Enhancements, Summoning) Spell-Like Abilities 7 (Locate Object, Find the Path, Discern Location [each +1]) General Knowledge 6 (Intelligence bonus; History, Arcana, The Planes, Dungeoneering, Nature) Hunting/Tracking 4 (Follow Scent, Spot/Set Ambush, Spot/Set Trap, Aerial Tracking) Social Skills 6 (Ancient languages/cultures, Modern language/cultures, Lying, Intimidation, Dragon language/culture)
Modifiers: Immune to Fire, Sleep, and Paralysis Effects Sonar Senses 1 Animal Senses 4 Charisma (+5) (can combine with Magic and Spell Like Abilities) Claws/Bite (+4) Toughness (+8) [no AP] Damage Reduction 4 (Magic Weapons) Magic Resistance (+8) Wealth (6)
Equipment: Huge hoard of treasure
Challenges: Cold Vulnerability: 2x damage from cold attacks
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D&D 1
Jan 23, 2007 14:07:44 GMT -5
Post by dorkknight23 on Jan 23, 2007 14:07:44 GMT -5
Write-Ups 2: Wizard and Other Arcanists
Name: Moira Silverstar, formerly Magda the Clanless, formerly Magda Trueshield
Height: 4’6 Weight: 130 lbs. Eye Color: Brown Hair Color: Brown Species: Shield Dwarf Alignment: Chaotic Good Class: Necromancer/Loremaster
Abilities: Int: 5 (i) Str: 1 Agi: 1 Spd: 1 Dur: 2
White: 2 Red: 10 (i)
Actions: Close Combat 1 (Agility bonus or Weapon Modifier; Dwarvish Combat Training) Magic 1 (Intelligence bonus; Specialization in Necromancy; Necromancy, Charm Spells, Barrier Spells, Cold Spells, Enhancement Spells, Divination) General Knowledge 2 (Intelligence bonus; Arcana, The Undead) Medical Healing 2 Social Skills 2 (Dwarf language/culture, Elf language/culture)
Modifiers: Mental Defenses (+1) Poison Resistance (+2) Magic Resistance (+1) Enhanced Vision 2 (See in Darkness) Wealth (0)
Equipment: Robes Dagger: (+1) Weapon Modifier
Challenge: Dwarf Haunted Past 1 (burned by love, disowned by family) Disliked and Shunned by Peers (Creepy and Clinical) 2
Moira Silverstar first found problems with her dwarven upbringing when her parents forebade her to learn the medical arts without becoming a cleric of Berronar Truesilver. She was dissatisfied with the lack of options for her to explore her studies. When the rare traveling elf, a Diviner named Avelas, appeared in her home in the Spine of the World, she fell head over heels for him. She ran away from home, only to find out her newfound lover was married and considered their relationship little more than a fling. Somewhat embittered, she threw herself in her studies, eventually becoming a wizard and necromancer of the first order and off to research her first book “The Effects of Negative Energy.” She is very much interested in anatomy and negative energy, moreso than the undead. She generally objects to using them in most circumstances, but she has no qualms with using negative energy to suck the life out of an opponent. In the most clinical environments, of course.
Name: Pyrrhus Flintbrush the Delightfully Mad
Height: 3’1 Weight: 50 lbs. Eye Color: Blue Hair Color: Brown Species: Gnome Alignment: Chaotic Evil Class: Sorcerer
Abilities: Int: 2 Str: 1 Agi: 2 Spd: 1 Dur: 2
White: 2 Red: 6
Actions: Close Combat 1 (Agility bonus or Weapon modifier; Unpredictable Attacks) Magic 1 (Fire Spells, Glamers, Compulsions) Social Skills 3 (Gnome language/culture, Madness, Intimidation) Concentration 2 (Intelligence bonus) Spell-Like Abilities 1 (Speak with burrowing animals, figments)
Modifiers: Charisma: (+4) [can combine with Magic] Insanity: Mental Defenses (+5) Illusion Resistance (+2) Enhanced Vision 1 (See in Low Light) Wealth (0)
Equipment: Robes Dagger: (+1) Weapon Modifier
Challenges: Gnome 2 Insane 5
“What is that infernal whistling in my ear?! Can’t you hear it? Like the song of seventeen screaming banshees, yelling in eternity along with the choirs of seraphim providing backup! What? Who are you?! What are you doing here?! Get away, get away before something happens. You’d be crazy if you didn’t... I’ll cut ya! I’ll cut ya!“
Pyrrhus Flintbrush was exiled from his gnomish brethren for being too magical. He’s a weapon of fire and madness, which can be pointed towards a problem, but hardly controlled. Some claim his great-grandfather was a Quori, or a Balor, or a Slaad, or a being Xoriat, or even the Fury or the Mockery themselves. Pyrrhus doesn’t know. All he knows is he needs to do something to quiet the voices in his head and the compulsions that drive him to act. He just needs to figure out what that something is.
Name: Chan Alcazar, Private in the Knights Arcane
Height: 5’11 Weight: 140 lbs. Eye Color: Blue Hair Color: Blonde Species: Human Alignment: Lawful Good Class: Paladin/Sorcerer
Abilities: Int: 3 Str: 2 Agi: 2 Spd: 2 Dur: 3
White: 3 Red: 9
Actions: Close Combat 1 (Strength bonus or Weapon Modifier; Smite Evil; Knights Arcane Training) Magic 1 (Armored Casting; Divination, Charms, Sonic Spells, Enhancements) Divine Magic 1 Social Skills 2 (Streetwise, Knights Arcane Protocol) Spying 1 (Disguise)
Modifiers: Charisma (+3) [can combine with Arcane Magic] Team Affiliation (Knights Arcane) Wealth (0)
Equipment: Chain Shirt: (+1) to Defense Longsword: (+1) Weapon Modifier
Challenges: Conflicting Obligations: 3 (Knights Arcane Undercover Agent) Code of Honor
A servant of the Knights Arcane for the Holy Magocracy, Chan Alcazar grew up a peasant boy in the Imperial Capital when, led by a vision, he found himself at the Knights recruiting station. The 5 year old boy was laughed away, but when the Head Imperator Knight saw young Chan, he took him under his wing, training him in the ways of the Knights Arcane. He has proven a budding sorcerer, and servant of the Holy Order. He has now been sent for covert operations for the Knights. This leads him to become a “freelance” adventurer, despite his hidden ties to the Empire, which people always have an opinion one way or the other about. He is a good man working for a good organization that works for a neutral nation, but he is a man of decency and honor.
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