D&D 1

[Manticore]

DK and I were interested in building a D&D world. We wanted to build a fantasy setting with MURPG rules. There have been several attempts to do this on this board that have been more or less successful. However, anything that can be used as a resource for other players who want to do D&D with these rules can't be a bad thing. Feel free to chip in whenever you like with your ideas.

Characters would probably start at 15 stones, representing a low level character. At the moment we will work on representing the core classes without the Prestige.

Fighter is simple enough. (This one works out at close to 14 or 15 stones. I haven't got my expansion books with me.)


FIGHTER______________
Character Name: Stabber Mcfighty
Race: Generic
Class: Fighter

Abilities: (6 stones total)
Intelligence: 2
Strength: 3
Agility: 2
Speed: 2
Durability: 3

Actions: (4 and 2/3 stones)
Close Combat: 4
(Weapon Modifier or Strength Bonus)
- Swords
- Sword-chucks, yo!
- Hand-to-hand
- Greatswords

Ranged Combat: 3
(Weapon Modifier)
- Crossbows

Horsemanship: 2

Social Skills: 2
- Mercenary culture
- Dungeon culture

Acrobatics: 1

Modifiers: (2 stones)
Generic, human appearance
Toughness (+1)
Initiative (+1)

-------------------------------------
NEW MODIFIERS:

Initiative (similar to Fast Draw)
-Can be used by anyone to get the first move in the first round of combat.

Obviously, who can get the first shot off in a melee is one of the most important things that happens in the game. This will be one of the prime requisites of most classes. Being able to strike first in combat is extremely useful.

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(Note: I forgot to bring my expansion books with me to University, so could someone refresh my memory as to the cost of Fast Draw?)
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[Manticore]

Hmm. Maybe organize actions for each of the schools, limited to 2x the AN of a Universal Magic Action (Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation)? Some of these actions already have some support (Conjuration and Summoning, and Mastery of the Dead and Necromancy both spring to mind). Or perhaps as options to an altered Mastery of Magic. A specialist in that case could be a +0 option, getting +1 stone for one school, but losing access to 2.

Divine Magic could be represented as Witchcraft (or Shamanism or what have you.) Tack one some Magical Healing and you've got a pretty good cleric.

Another thought. Inventing: option to use mastery of magic in the place of technology to make magical items?

[pgholland]

Fast draw is just modifier number. I guess it could work, although i'm not sure it would quite capture the nail biting nature of chance. Also how on earth would sneak attacks be dealt with?

[GhostKnight]

Sneak attacks are attacks who ignore defense of the opponent therefore doing more damage

For example: your assassin gets inside a house and he sees a guard, he sneaks behind him and takes out a katar, since the guard didn't heard nor noticed the assassin he strikes the guard with full stones ignoring reflexive dodge AND armor defense. Of course if the guard was a golem he would have to pass his rock like hide.


Or could be a modifier like claws with the disadvantage of "only use when unnoticed or against a helpless enemy"

For example: if your opponent is in a way unable to use Reflexive Dodge (a must for most classes) you damage the opponent and do extra damage or if you use a sneak like action like ninja or thieving or black ops.

A potential rogue should have social skills (-bluff), high agi (Dex) and other skills to use magic devices.

[Beacon]

Heh, 8-Bit Theater love!

RE Magical Schools: The magic rules probably need retooling. I’m thinking of creating new actions/schools that are more akin to magical travel than most other MURPG magic actions. That is to say that you pick specialties/spells that you’re proficient at (though you might still be able to do other related things after overcoming a little resistance) within the action/school you choose rather than getting a complete package deal (as is the case with actions like witchcraft or sorcery).

RE Sneak Attacks: The MURPG already handles those pretty well. Characters that are snuck up on don’t get to assign active defenses so initial attacks against them do more damage.

[dorkknight23]

I'm agreeing very much with Beacon's assessments on those particular issues.

And I'd want to disconnect the Mastery of Magic action entirely from the game. This would, as far as I can see thusfar, only affect Witchcraft/Shamanism/Divine Magic, but you can just purchase it normally then.

What about the cost for these magical schools? AN+2 or thereabouts? Maybe, if you want to play more of a generalist, perhaps you can combine actions? It seems to be a choice between eating up a bunch of Action Boxes and number of specialties. Thus you can have all 9 schools of Magic at AN 1 for 9 white stone (27 with an intelligence bonus, but perhaps you'd just spend lines to get it after.) Also, I think a discounted Intelligence bonus of (+2) cost level would be good.

Magic requires a complete overhaul, but can we think of any other immediate issues that need addressing? Maybe a way of representing Wisdom.

How about this modifier:

Wisdom:
Cost= Modifier Number + 2

Wisdom provides free mental defense up to the MN. It also provides free stones towards perception and intuition-related checks (the equivalent of spotting, listening, sensing motive, etc.) It also gives free stones to the Divine Magic action.

Also, a new option to Witchcraft:
Turn Undead (+1 option): an attack versus durability + turn resistance that affects undead only. Cannot have with Control Undead. Stones spent = resistance needed to defeat.
Turn Other (+1 option for each): affect another kind of creature (Elemental of a certain type, fiends, Abberations [e.g. Eberron,] and so on.) Attack vs. Durability. Stones spent = resistance needed to defeat.
Control Undead (+1 option): attack versus durability + turn resistance to either create a negative situational modifier on actions (rebuking) or take control of undead (a lá Project Thoughts/Control Others, but it effects undead only.) Stones spent = resistance needed to defeat.
Control Other (+1 option for each): control another kind of creature (plants, animals, elements of a certain type, and so on.) Attack vs. Durability. Stones spent = resistance needed to defeat.

Turn Resistance
Cost = modifier number

Adds to Undead's Durability for purpose of turning/controlling. Undead only.

[Ricochet]

MN+4 for mental defense and animal senses? Dorkknight, don't you think that's a little expensive?

[GhostKnight]

Maybe wisdom should be another ability instead. Aside it helps with Nature/Divine magic.

I think about magic as masteries for all the things you can do with it. For example with illusionism you start with mere visual illusions but at the end you can actually kill using them or with evocation at the beginning you can do simple things like the magic missiles but at the end you are a cannon on two feet. Using marvel rules its hard to balance this so I thing that mages should have a spell list, learn the spells from books or practice a lot and create their own spells.

If the thread is created, could there be multiclass characters ?

[dorkknight23]

Hmm. Perhaps +4 is too costly. How about +2 instead, and we can include that those free stones also go towards "Divine Magic" actions as well?

Also, a new action, for all the Barbarians out there...

Rage:
Cost= Action Number +3

For each stone spend in Rage, you gain +1/2 AN to Strength and +1/2 AN to Durability for a number of panels equal to your newly modified durability score. This then requires a continual upkeep of one stone per panel (to represent his single-minded focus, as well as limiting his actions per panel.) Can be improved by lines.

Example:
Krusk the Half-Orc Barbarian has Rage at Action Number 2, a Strength of 3, and a Durability of 3. He puts 2 stones into Rage, increasing his Strength to 4, and his Durability to 4. Now busting open that door shoiuld be no problem.

While reconciling this, although it should hopefully not happen, my ruling on Healing Factors and increased durability: for characters who can increase their Durability (through actions like Growth, or are improved by magic items,) they can pay for a Healing Factor up to the cost of any durability number they can possess at creation. The healing factor's energy regeneration improvement will then apply for any durability equal to or beneath the DN purchased, but not above. His energy regeneration rate will be equal to his durability score, or the highest rate he can regenerate using his healing factor, whichever is higher.

Example: Krusk the Barbarian purchases a healing factor for a Durability of 4 for 4 stones (the highest he can gain with his Rage Action at the time.) This means for any Durability 4 or lower, he can apply his healing factor's energy regeneration rate, getting 4 stones/panel, or 6 stones/panel, respectively. However, later on, his rage improves in AN, and he's able to put his Durability up to 5, however he is still able to regenerate 6 stones/panel instead of 5, until his durability increases to the point its own regeneration rate would be better (in this case Durability 7.)

[dorkknight23]

Animal Companions, Familiars, Special Mounts, etc.:
Characters may take stones away from building their characters to create a special companion and build it, pricing everything normally. They may use any lines acquires for their character to improve their companion/mount/familiar's abilities, actions, or modifiers.

Improving Abilities Beyond 3, and Modifiers:
Improving an ability beyond 3 will take = 20(increased in stone value from previous AN) lines of experience.
Example #1: Tordek the Dwarven Warrior has a Strength of 3. If he wants to increase his strength from 3 to 4 would take 20 lines of experience.
Example #2: Mialee the Wizard has an Intelligence of 5, using the special Intelligence rule to govern it for energy, wants to improve it to 6. This would cost 40 lines of experience.
Example #3: Fozzy Hodpeaks the Gnome Basketweaver wants to improve his Durability from 3 to 4. This would cost 60 lines of epxerience.

Improving Modifiers takes 30 lines of experience/modifier number to improve.

And what actions do we need besides the ones discussed above?
I see the following already created ones are usable:
Acrobatics
Business Skills (Profession [Merchant])
Close Combat
Ranged Combat
Concentration
Dance
Force Blast (Dragon's Breath, etc.)
Gambling
General Knowledge
Medical Healing
Magical Healing
Horsemanship
Hunting/Tracking
Leadership
Mastery of Elements (for Efreet, Djinni, etc.)
Metamorphosis (for shapeshifters)
Telepathy/Telekinesis/Psi-Weapon (Psionics, optionally, the final for soulknifes)
Thieving

On the fence:
Black Ops/Spying

Modifiers:
Any but Cybernetic Senses, Sense Mutants, Suppress Mutant Powers, and perhaps Psycho-Centric Powert Template

Some other things that need thought:
Druid's Wild Shape abilities: Metamorphosis or a special Transform Self (transform into any X [10? 20?] stone animal?) How would one price the latter?

Unless we start breaking into the Complete Books to try and mimic those characters, those are all the issues I have with the core classes.

I'm going to try and cook up some "iconic" 15 stone + challenges characters in a bit. Let's see how that works out.

[Beacon]

dorkknight23 said:

On the fence:
Black Ops/Spying

Why wouldn’t you allow it? Isn’t running into a spy in a tavern kind of a fantasy staple? Granted the specialties will have to be appropriate to the setting but that’s just common sense.

Modifiers:
Any but Cybernetic Senses, Sense Mutants, Suppress Mutant Powers, and perhaps Psycho-Centric Powert Template

…or you could allow all or most of them and put a magical spin on them (you know, suppress mutant powers could be “magical suppression aura” or something). Granted a racial or magical version of cybernetic sense probably won’t be worth getting in this environment since a lot of its components are completely unnecessary in a low-tech fantasy setting.

Heh, tech in a fantasy setting. If I weren’t so puzzled by the PA rules I’d suggest a steam punk expansion.

Some other things that need thought:
Druid's Wild Shape abilities: Metamorphosis or a special Transform Self (transform into any X [10? 20?] stone animal?) How would one price the latter?

Price it like Apocalypse? Ten white stones for unlimited alternate forms (as long as they’re cheaper than the main form) and maybe knock off one or two stones for only having animal forms.

Edit: I’m not positive about the idea posted wherein magical schools are treated like masteries. However it did get me thinking that it might be the way to handle some classes; after earning enough LoE you effectively “gain a level” by adding predetermined specialties/options to their class-related actions.

[dorkknight23]

I can see reflavoring Suppress Mutant Powers it as "personal antimagic field," but I think a "Sense Magic" action would best be expressed by the "See Auras" option from Enhanced Vision. Cybernetic Senses might work with some reworking, but would be better for a Steampunk setting.

Another thought:
Light Armor: starts at (+1)
Medium Armor: starts at (+2)
Heavy Armor: starts at (+3)

Weapons: (+1) for a normal weapon, (+2) for a masterwork weapon, (+3) [or higher] for a magical weapon, we can also add on other enchantments depending.

The magic system...maybe we need to pull a D&D "if it ain't broke" on this. AN of a Magic action would apply to the level of spells able to cast, with stones of effort required accordingly. Wizards would keep a spellbook with certain spells they know listed, sorcerers could have a spells known list. These could be general, like a "fire energy blast" that can be resized and reflavored accordingly for the number of stones spent (from "flaming hands" to "meteor swarm") or "Summon Monster."

[dorkknight23]

beacon said:

Price it like Apocalypse? Ten white stones for unlimited alternate forms (as long as they’re cheaper than the main form) and maybe knock off one or two stones for only having animal forms.

9 sounds about right to me.

[dorkknight23]

Costing this "Magic" action...maybe needs to be reworked into something like this?

Magic
Cost level = Action Number + 4
(+2 Intelligence bonus)

The wizard has a number of "spell categories" equal to his Magic Action Number. For each point of Intelligence, the wizard gains another spell category, in addition to the amount above.

Some example spell categories (for some insight on these and why I came up with the ones I did, look at the overview of magic in the player's handbook):
Dispelling
Barrier Spells (Wall of Fire, Iron, etc.)
Banishing Spells
Summon Monster
Create Matter
Call Creature
Magical Travel
Detection
Scrying
Charm Spells
Compulsions
Figment Spells
Glamer Spells
Pattern Spells
Phantasm Spells
Shadow Spells
Energy Spells (or "Insert Element Here"-spells, particularly Fire, Cold, Sonic, Acid, or Electricity Blasts of varying sorts)
Necromancy Spells
Enhancement Spells (improving an ability)
Alteration Spells (transforming something into something else)

Specialization: (+0 to cost level) +1 situational modifier to one spell category of your choice, however, you take a -1 situational modifier to all others.

Examples:
Igglwiv the Hedge-Witch has this action at AN 4, and an Intelligence of 4. She has 8 specialties, Alteration Spells, Necromancy Spells, Dispelling, Charm Spells, Compulsion Spells, Summoning Spells, Detection Spells, and Scrying Spells. She purchased the intelligence bonus, and can thus spend up to 8 stones making effects like the ones purchased.

Angnar the Apprentice has this action at AN 1, with an Intelligence of 5. He has 6 specialties, Energy Spells, Enhancement Spells, Detection Spells, Dispelling, Charm Spells, and Summon Monster. He has an Intelligence bonus and a Specialization in Energy Spells. He can spend up to 6 stones for the desired effects, but gets a +1 situational modifier on Energy Spells, and a -1 on all others.

Trying to streamline it while making it powerful while not being say, Asgardian Sorcerery powerful. Thoughts?

[dorkknight23]

Purchasing:
Perhaps for certain abilities (like Wild Shape,) it would be alright for the players to purchase these with lines, with 6 lines = one white stone. For the example of Wild Shape, an aspiring druid would have to spend 54 lines before he could acquire it. It could also apply for "multiclassing" into "classes" like Cleric or Wizard, with every +1 cost level being 10 more lines they'd have to spend before improving it?

The amount of lines it seems to make a truly 20th-level character might necessitate more lines than the average game. Maybe like 1-2 lines per encounter with monsters, 1-2 lines per part of the adventure solved (puzzles, interrogations, etc.), plus the occasional line for good roleplaying. I could see that translating to about 10 or so lines per "adventure."

On alignment: I think it'll be handy to have the alignments remain from D&D, just so we can have abilities like Smite Evil (or Detect Evil, for that matter) work.

I'm going to be working on some "iconic" characters in a few.

And, while we're at it, maybe we can start discussing possible campaigns to use these rules. Besides some established campaign settings (Grayhawk, FR, Eberron, Dark Sun, Planescape,) maybe working in some more homebrewed ideas (this Steampunk concept floating around, for example.)

EDIT: Challenge stones for being non-human.
1 stone: being an elf or dwarf. Essentially human and not majorly discriminated against, can interact easily in human society.
2 stone: Gnomes, halflings, half-orcs, creatures that, for one reason or another, would have difficulty moving amongst other races (due to their size or social stigma) but not as impacted as...
3 stone: being another, less respected, humanoid. Goblin, Gnoll, Orc, Kobold, Hobgoblin, Bugbear, etc.
4 stone: Monsters. Trolls, giants, beholders, etc.