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Post by Ricochet on Oct 1, 2006 6:09:09 GMT -5
Am I the only one who thinks this advantage is overpriced? Just to compare: To combine actions you have to pay +2 or +3 to cost level.
Besides that, it seems to me that most of you haven't read the added rule from the guide to the Hulk and Avengers (page 47, I think). It basically says that if you want a to use an ability bonus for your action that is less than 5, you only have to add the total of your ability bonus.
Okay this wouldn't completely apply on weapon modifiers, but because weapon modifiers can't add more than 4, I guess that an additional weapon modifier should be +4 instead of +5 at the most.
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Post by pgholland on Oct 1, 2006 6:24:16 GMT -5
Besides that, it seems to me that most of you haven't read the added rule from the guide to the Hulk and Avengers (page 47, I think). It basically says that if you want a to use an ability bonus for your action that is less than 5, you only have to add the total of your ability bonus. Okay this wouldn't completely apply on weapon modifiers, but because weapon modifiers can't add more than 4, I guess that an additional weapon modifier should be +4 instead of +5 at the most. Actually the Avengers guide says your GM MAY ALLOW you to pay less, so that's not necessarily true. Also why can a weapon only give +4? I've never seen a rule that says that, e.g. i'm pretty sure a Laser Cannon is a +8-+10 weapon. But yes i also feel that it's a bit overpriced.
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Post by Ricochet on Oct 1, 2006 9:53:56 GMT -5
Any GM in his right mind shouldn't charge +5 if you only get a +3 bonus, although weapon modifiers are a slightly different story because they give free stones.
You're right about the +4 rule. I guess I should have clarified. No handheld non-energy, or non-magical weapon may have a modifier greater than +4. And that is in the book. It also covers most of the weapons you can carry because: - Magical weapons are pretty much exclusive to masters of magic. - Energy weapons are exclusive to high-tech groups (S.H.I.E.L.D. and A.I.M.) - Missile launchers and such can't be carried along for entire missions.
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Post by pgholland on Oct 1, 2006 10:11:14 GMT -5
Well the argument would be that you can enhance an ability through the use of items, magic, powers etc. and in theory at a cheaper rate than just enhancing the ability so it's easier to charge you at the start rather than mid-game.
Of course the +4 trend has been bucked- Captain America's shield along with Taskmaster's, not magical, and not energy. And if we were being techincal we could say stuff like 'Why could Wolverine's claws be higher than a +4 (We know they're not, be they could have been and they are effectively a weapon, just one that's been put in him)'. I don't think weapons should be constrained to the +4 i think thats more as a guide for GMs creating mundane weaponry, anything that you're willing to pay for yourself out of generation stones shouldn't really be restricted by that.
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Post by Ricochet on Oct 1, 2006 13:11:58 GMT -5
You don't think weapons should be constrained to +4? What's next? How about dropping the limits for human abilities, let them have durability at 5! Who cares?! It's ONLY in there for balance anyway!
Pgholland, do you have any idea how that would screw up the game? Let me give you an example. I know guns can't have a higher mod than +4, but I just want a gun that's stronger than an energy rifle. This may sound extreme, but I've had players who didn't give a damn about the balance that a D&R chart gives. Just try to follow the guidelines for once. You'll see it just works better that way.
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Post by pgholland on Oct 1, 2006 13:19:10 GMT -5
Well Captain America has a +6 Gun and Sword effectively, if you're willing to pay 9 white stones from your character's reserve for something that could get destroyed or lost, then why not?
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Post by bawonsamdi on Oct 5, 2006 12:13:30 GMT -5
I think that ricochet was talking about mundane weapons being limited to a +4. Cap' shield is anything but mundane.
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Post by pgholland on Oct 5, 2006 13:02:03 GMT -5
Oh i don't doubt that for a second, but Cap is just a player, so how did he get such an extraordinary weapon? And why should he have special dispensation just because the writer's of the game said so?
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Post by Brainstem on Oct 6, 2006 15:16:16 GMT -5
He got the weapon because he paid for it in creation stones. Extraordinary weapons shouldn't be coming out of a player's wealth or as a gift from the GM. Captain America paid for his shield the same way Wolverine paid for his Claws.
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Post by pgholland on Oct 6, 2006 15:27:38 GMT -5
Which was exactly the point i was making.
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Post by Brainstem on Oct 6, 2006 18:39:53 GMT -5
Well, I think the shield may be a special circumstance. The +4 rule basically means your standard weapons, the kind of things you can buy in weapons shops and whatnot. Higher than that is intended to be unavailable to the average person. When Ricochet was talking earlier about energy and magical weapons being limited to certain types of characters or organizations, I think Captain America's shield fits in that category. While it isn't really an energy weapon, its general availability is equal to that of your standard energy weapon, if not lesser than.
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Post by Ricochet on Oct 7, 2006 5:49:11 GMT -5
Just take a look at it this way: Would you allow a player to have a ranged combat that's higher than that of Bullseye? Or how about a close combat that is higher than that of Captain America? There's a maximum level to everything, including weapon modifiers. Some players will always disagree, though (Including one or two players from my homegroup. Those sick bastards!).
And about Cap's shield: Some people say his shield is overrated, but since it's made of a very special vibranium/adamantium alloy (I thought adamantium was an alloy) it has some unique properties. One of them is that it will absorb the impact of anything that hits it, so that the wielder hardly notices anything. Whatever hit the shield however, will notice... umm, something.
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Post by pgholland on Oct 7, 2006 6:47:00 GMT -5
Just take a look at it this way: Would you allow a player to have a ranged combat that's higher than that of Bullseye? Or how about a close combat that is higher than that of Captain America? If they're willing to pay for it yes- you shouldn't tell a player 'No you can't have an Action Number higher than that because Stan Lee said that Bullseye is the best ranged combatant ever and therefore i'm not going to let you do anything he wouldn't let you do, so there's no chance that someone better might have come along, so stuff your well thought out concept, I won't let you do it. And about Cap's shield: Some people say his shield is overrated, but since it's made of a very special vibranium/adamantium alloy (I thought adamantium was an alloy) it has some unique properties. One of them is that it will absorb the impact of anything that hits it, so that the wielder hardly notices anything. Whatever hit the shield however, will notice... umm, something. That still doesn't explain why he can pay for a +6 weapon with character generation stones but no one else can.
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Post by quixoteles on Oct 7, 2006 10:52:42 GMT -5
when it comes to that shield, it because is a game written by americans besed on the stories of an American publishing house. I am not trying to give you attitude or nuthing man, its just the truth. Sorry. and when it comes to that 7 limit it is practical. say you have some one with that action limit of 7 (which I think only applies to skills. You have say a guy with a durability of 4 (okay, he's still human...) with a action cap of 12 he's got max say 11 plain spent red stones. thats fine even if he is a genius (lest say 9) and a master martial artist with intellect bonus of 9 (still human right?) he can spend like... 16 stones, now youv'e 18 an stone limit.
As for the well thought out concept thing... I always let immortals take no limit on mundane actions. I won't go farther than that.
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Post by pgholland on Oct 7, 2006 11:09:14 GMT -5
I'm not quite sure what you're saying, if it was that a character with a high action number can put in a lot of stones, well then yes they can, but there is nothing in the rules that says you can't have an action above any level (except 10 at creation), and your example is flawed anyway- Hawkeye and Bullseye have Ranged Combat at 8.
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