Post by feloniousmonk on Mar 7, 2009 14:34:09 GMT -5
As someone who has designed many RPGs, some worthy of play testing, some worthy of publishing, and some worthy of continued development I thought I would repost this from the MURPG 2.0 20 page thread in the general forum.
Some of it may not apply any more, but it has enough ideas or suggestions that I believe it merits a read. Take it as you will.
Caution: WALL OF TEXT!
Ok, so I just got done reading all 20 pages and I like a lot of what I have seen. I think it is worth mentioning that if a system is being designed from the ground up constantly referring back to the old system is counter productive.
I do have some other observations, which I think are worth listing.
From what I have read there are several things that each person wants to have as intrinsic to all characters.
Strength, Durability, Speed, Agility, Intelligence, Will. Energy Pool and Energy Regeneration, and Super Powers. This seems to be a complete list of what people can spend creation (blue) points on.
Health is also intrinsic, but is determined by Durability and does not require points to be spent during creation. Obviously Super Powers are varied and will be addressed later.
From what I can tell Strength, Durability, Speed, Agility Intelligence, Will and Energy Regeneration fall under the (to be determined) Basic Point distribution cost in creation points.
Energy Pool follows it own unique costs. No on, as of yet, has stated a cost. I think 3 blue/energy is appropriate. This allows people to buy the appropriate amount of energy required for a character using his power, while maintaining a price to pay for each point. A flat scale seems most fitting for this application, although people are free to debate this.
Having read the ideas of a tiered cost for super powers, I am not sold. I think a much more reasonable approach would be to simply assign a number of blue points required for each level purchased during creation. This allows you to have a much great level of flexibility controlling the cost of powers.
Additionally, the best way to handle ability options would be best handled one of two ways. A flat increase or increase in the cost/level for improvements to the power. Conversely, only a decrease in cost/level for things which limit the power. Unfortunately, this will require all options to be listed under the power as opposed to have a list of powers and a list of options which can affect any power as the benefits or detriments would be unique for each super power. This isn't a bad thing, it just takes a bit more typing. It does, however, allow for a much higher control over balance.
TANGENT:
Which brings me to another observation. The goal of any RPG is two fold, be fun and be balanced. Of course any game can be broken if a GM allows it, but having a starting system that doesn't require many band-aids is much better than simply house ruling a bunch of stuff. In the case of MURPG an added goal of being able to replicate comic book powers reasonably is important, but sacrifices for fun and playability must be made considering the vast variations comic books can have. Just because random circumstance XYZ happened in a single comic does not mean it must be included in the core rules. Things of that nature are much more suited to GM fiat.
/TANGENT
The each power having its own blue/level is a benefit because you will find many powers are simply not equal even among the same rank of power. Eliminating the arbitrary rank returns control to the designer over fine tuning balance.
Some ideas for defense might be worth consideration. Having a free base defense (calculated in whatever way is deemed best) is not a bad idea.
I like the average of (Dur/Str or Spd/Agi) + ONE additional modifier IE. equipment/applicable (passive) powers/whatever = total base defense
Then, if a player wishes to actively defend they have the option to use (active) powers by spending stones which can increase their defense. Either by replacing base defense or augmenting it. The number of powers here are astonishing and the associated costs required to purchase said powers is a matter of balance. Some examples might help.
Absorb Kinetic Attack, passive (always on) costs 10 blue stones per rank to absorb rank of each attack.
Absorb Kinetic Attack, Active requires 2 blue stones/rank and stones of effort to absorb double/triple stones of the next attack(s) in that panel. Cheaper to have, but requires you to spend energy to see a benefit from it.
The same can be done for offensive powers.
This concludes my observations over what has already been said. I will now throw out some ideas which I have in my head.
The hate on modifiers is understandable, but all together unnecessary. The proper response is to adequately balance modifiers with the cost of acquiring or using them. Things like requiring extra actions before use or limiting the number of times it can be used in a given issue are not unreasonable and function well to limit a powerful ability. Especially in the case of free stones derived from things like targeting. Requiring the use of the ability to take 2 actions balances its utility, but still allows a gun user to pull off the one amazing shot he really needs as opposed to two worse shots which would do him no real good.
Not the best example because I could easily see that power changed in to a sit mod given when a player uses a guns own sights by spending the time to aim a shot well. So a pistol would see less benefit that a high powered rifle with a scope limited by the Ranged Combat of the player. So Punisher could take full advantage of a +5 scoped rifle, but Hulk couldn't.
Developing a list of modifiers which can be applied to many actions by any player if the cost is played is a good way to allow for the powerful attacks while limiting the frequency in which they occur.
Some of it may not apply any more, but it has enough ideas or suggestions that I believe it merits a read. Take it as you will.
Caution: WALL OF TEXT!
Ok, so I just got done reading all 20 pages and I like a lot of what I have seen. I think it is worth mentioning that if a system is being designed from the ground up constantly referring back to the old system is counter productive.
I do have some other observations, which I think are worth listing.
From what I have read there are several things that each person wants to have as intrinsic to all characters.
Strength, Durability, Speed, Agility, Intelligence, Will. Energy Pool and Energy Regeneration, and Super Powers. This seems to be a complete list of what people can spend creation (blue) points on.
Health is also intrinsic, but is determined by Durability and does not require points to be spent during creation. Obviously Super Powers are varied and will be addressed later.
From what I can tell Strength, Durability, Speed, Agility Intelligence, Will and Energy Regeneration fall under the (to be determined) Basic Point distribution cost in creation points.
Energy Pool follows it own unique costs. No on, as of yet, has stated a cost. I think 3 blue/energy is appropriate. This allows people to buy the appropriate amount of energy required for a character using his power, while maintaining a price to pay for each point. A flat scale seems most fitting for this application, although people are free to debate this.
Having read the ideas of a tiered cost for super powers, I am not sold. I think a much more reasonable approach would be to simply assign a number of blue points required for each level purchased during creation. This allows you to have a much great level of flexibility controlling the cost of powers.
Additionally, the best way to handle ability options would be best handled one of two ways. A flat increase or increase in the cost/level for improvements to the power. Conversely, only a decrease in cost/level for things which limit the power. Unfortunately, this will require all options to be listed under the power as opposed to have a list of powers and a list of options which can affect any power as the benefits or detriments would be unique for each super power. This isn't a bad thing, it just takes a bit more typing. It does, however, allow for a much higher control over balance.
TANGENT:
Which brings me to another observation. The goal of any RPG is two fold, be fun and be balanced. Of course any game can be broken if a GM allows it, but having a starting system that doesn't require many band-aids is much better than simply house ruling a bunch of stuff. In the case of MURPG an added goal of being able to replicate comic book powers reasonably is important, but sacrifices for fun and playability must be made considering the vast variations comic books can have. Just because random circumstance XYZ happened in a single comic does not mean it must be included in the core rules. Things of that nature are much more suited to GM fiat.
/TANGENT
The each power having its own blue/level is a benefit because you will find many powers are simply not equal even among the same rank of power. Eliminating the arbitrary rank returns control to the designer over fine tuning balance.
Some ideas for defense might be worth consideration. Having a free base defense (calculated in whatever way is deemed best) is not a bad idea.
I like the average of (Dur/Str or Spd/Agi) + ONE additional modifier IE. equipment/applicable (passive) powers/whatever = total base defense
Then, if a player wishes to actively defend they have the option to use (active) powers by spending stones which can increase their defense. Either by replacing base defense or augmenting it. The number of powers here are astonishing and the associated costs required to purchase said powers is a matter of balance. Some examples might help.
Absorb Kinetic Attack, passive (always on) costs 10 blue stones per rank to absorb rank of each attack.
Absorb Kinetic Attack, Active requires 2 blue stones/rank and stones of effort to absorb double/triple stones of the next attack(s) in that panel. Cheaper to have, but requires you to spend energy to see a benefit from it.
The same can be done for offensive powers.
This concludes my observations over what has already been said. I will now throw out some ideas which I have in my head.
The hate on modifiers is understandable, but all together unnecessary. The proper response is to adequately balance modifiers with the cost of acquiring or using them. Things like requiring extra actions before use or limiting the number of times it can be used in a given issue are not unreasonable and function well to limit a powerful ability. Especially in the case of free stones derived from things like targeting. Requiring the use of the ability to take 2 actions balances its utility, but still allows a gun user to pull off the one amazing shot he really needs as opposed to two worse shots which would do him no real good.
Not the best example because I could easily see that power changed in to a sit mod given when a player uses a guns own sights by spending the time to aim a shot well. So a pistol would see less benefit that a high powered rifle with a scope limited by the Ranged Combat of the player. So Punisher could take full advantage of a +5 scoped rifle, but Hulk couldn't.
Developing a list of modifiers which can be applied to many actions by any player if the cost is played is a good way to allow for the powerful attacks while limiting the frequency in which they occur.