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Post by WildKnight on Nov 26, 2010 8:01:03 GMT -5
Just for one second... scrap all the philisophical arguments about story vs. mechanics, personal hurt feelings (the very first lesson I had to learn when I started GMing was that personal feelings can't enter into your decision making) etc, and consider the core question;
If the GM knows that there is a character amongst the PCs who can one-shot his enemies, what is that GMs incentive to spend countless hours of his personal time creating interesting encounters?
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Post by Cernunnos on Nov 26, 2010 8:05:43 GMT -5
consider the core question; If the GM knows that there is a character amongst the PCs who can one-shot his enemies, what is that GMs incentive to spend countless hours of his personal time creating interesting encounters? Over the years I have learned to give something to each player in an encounter. However I understand what you mean. For instance last table top session I had Jesse (SquireWraith343 on these boards) pretty much handed me my NPC's ass after building him pretty combat oriented... with what? Sever Force.
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Post by WildKnight on Nov 26, 2010 8:17:12 GMT -5
How in all the hells is Sever Force something you can use in combat??? Even in the $#@! awful comic book it originated from, you needed a subdued target!
<Edit> ... and for the record, I'm not talking about a single NPC getting dropped. Stuff happens. Players can get lucky and make what should have been a tough opponent into a complete joke, and vice versa. I'm talking about entire encounters going pear shaped because of one player having a character with an uber-dominant, reasonably reliable ability.
A good example of this is the Force Wall spell in D&D. In one campaign I played in, a character had a Staff with only one spell in it; Force Wall (obviously it was a custom made staff). In every combat he would simply drop the "dome" on the most powerful combatant while the part destroyed the rest of the monsters, and then the party would pick apart the Big Bad solo. It was pathetic, and the furthest thing I can imagine from fun. The rest of the party went with it for a while, but when he bought a second staff because he was running out of charges on the first, we lost a player every two weeks until it was me, that player, and the GM. Even then, nobody but me had the balls to tell the player in question that what happened to our group was his fault.
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Post by Cernunnos on Nov 26, 2010 8:52:51 GMT -5
How in all the hells is Sever Force something you can use in combat??? It is! I loved KOTOR comic! It was epic! Sounds like GM intervention is needed here! Think the player should be pulled aside and told this. In our case sounds like you have already done this, but some people just don't know they aren't allowing others to have fun. I have also learned that there are just some players who you cannot please, no matter what you do. For some reason these tend to be the "power gamers." You know the ones who complain when something happens to their character and instead of rolling with the story... they throw a fit? Yeah those guys.
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Post by WildKnight on Nov 26, 2010 9:31:13 GMT -5
I have also learned that there are just some players who you cannot please, no matter what you do. For some reason these tend to be the "power gamers." You know the ones who complain when something happens to their character and instead of rolling with the story... they throw a fit? Yeah those guys. Yep. Those are the ones (interestingly enough, my personal Power Gamer in my Friday group is of a different sort... he doesn't care if I kill his character, which can also be pretty frustrating)
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Post by shenron on Nov 28, 2010 15:34:03 GMT -5
This thread took an interesting turn. I did not mean for it to turnout like this, oh well.
Can't we all just get along or agree to disagree?
You know, no matter what system you use a power gamer can ruin it for the other players. Even systems designed to be equal or balanced.
Each system has its merits and flaws. Well, except the system that shall not be names anyway, that is all flaws.
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Post by WildKnight on Nov 28, 2010 15:44:13 GMT -5
I used to agree with that, but as I've experienced dozens and dozens of systems, I've come to realize that its a load of bunk. Sorry Some systems invite power gaming, and some systems openly encourage it. Other systems have clearly done their homework and do their best to avoid it. D&D 3.5 brazenly employed sucking up to the power gamer as a marketing strategy.
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Post by Thuellai on Nov 28, 2010 23:36:03 GMT -5
I have to admit I don't have much affection for Pathfinder. What I have enjoyed though is Fantasy Craft - it's an offshoot, but it feels to me much more like what I wanted 3/3.5e to be after growing up on AD&D. It's crunchy, perhaps a little too much at times, but it's smooth nonetheless - there are especially a ton of tools to make figuring out combat encounters easier for the GM. My only complaint is that the formatting of the book is a bit rough - creating characters can require a lot of flipping to different sections, though no more so [and perhaps less so] than the 3.5 PHB.
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Post by shenron on Nov 29, 2010 2:18:45 GMT -5
I might have to look into Fantasy Craft, who makes it?
I have also recently discovered Castles and Crusades that I really enjoy as well. Almost as much or as much as Pathfinder.
I can also have a blast playing 4th Ed. as well.
My favorite systems are D6 (especially Legends), nWOD, and Savage Worlds at the moment.
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Post by Thuellai on Nov 29, 2010 2:39:55 GMT -5
Crafty Games, sensibly enough. They also make Spy Craft, which is basically James Bond or Ocean's Eleven - the RPG
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Post by shenron on Nov 29, 2010 3:26:28 GMT -5
What rule set does Fantasy Craft use? 3.5 or Pathfinder?
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Post by Thuellai on Nov 29, 2010 23:41:57 GMT -5
Neither, it's their own system. It's similar in a lot of regards to 3.5 or Pathfinder though.
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Post by shenron on Nov 30, 2010 14:07:22 GMT -5
Awesome! I will check it out.
I guess one of my favorite things about 4th Edition is that they finally reprinted Dark Sun for it! Which sadly, I still do not have but it is definitely on my list.
I think that was one of the best settings ever.
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Post by shazam on Dec 3, 2010 14:26:16 GMT -5
I heard 4th was going to restart ...ugh I can't remember the name..Spelljammer, yeah that's it! I believe there are some mounts and vehicles in the PH from that series.
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Post by WildKnight on Dec 3, 2010 14:29:40 GMT -5
They made a 4th Edition-ized version of Gamma World, but I hadn't heard anything about Spelljammer. On the other hand, I pretty much gave up caring about 4th Edition, so it could have just slipped past me.
Unfortunately, I kind of suspect that unless something changes, Hasbro is going to ditch its RPG division, and I don't foresee their choice to bring back not one, but two of their most utterly unplayable settings (Dark Sun and now, apparently, Spelljammer) as their route back to the top.
What they really need to do is scrap this entire experiment and put D&D 5 out ASAP.
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