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Post by WildKnight on Oct 7, 2011 10:23:42 GMT -5
Ninja Turtles is a different thing. Non super hero comics are almost a different industry unto themselves. Dark Horse does very well with it's horror and science fiction stuff (mostly licensed properties, but still). G.I. Joe, Transformers, heck even He-Man gets occasional "reboots" and will sell well for a dozen issues or so.
Spawn... I guess you could argue he's a case for trying new heroes, but at the same time you have to look at more than just short term profits. That's the kind of thinking that has seriously jacked up many corporations. In the long term, what happened with Spawn was that they ended up so wildly over-invested in the character that they couldn't pull out before the inevitable dip in popularity, which is why for a period of 2 or 3 years it wasn't uncommon to find Spawn figures on the discount rack everywhere.
The same sort of thing happens with Superman, but with Superman you can almost certainly guarantee that in a couple of years, he'll be back striking a fancy in the hearts of the faithful. Spawn will probably never see another spike in popularity again.
That's not to say that new heroes don't stand any chance, or that comic books shouldn't try them. It's just that it's a risk and the comic book industry hasn't been in the position to take risks for a few years now.
Besides... look at it this way. If you were creating a totally new hero, what direction would you go? What story would you tell that someone wouldn't claim was derivative and probably end up inciting more interest in the perceived "original" than it does in your new idea?
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Post by roxolid on Oct 7, 2011 11:18:08 GMT -5
Fair points - that's the million dollar question... How to make the next 'big thing' assuming the comics industry still has one or two left in it. It'd have to be something that is brightly coloured/noticeable and relatively inoffensive to include kids as a market and possibly teenagers, that could cross over into toys, games, films, cartoon shows (as you'll know a lot of the 80s cartoon shows were there mostly to promote vast toy ranges for Mattel and similar companies. He Man, Power Rangers etc). You'd be alienating all the old fat nerdy guys who spend £50-60 on comic books every visit, mind, but who cares when you're raking in millions from peddling licensed merchandise for a few years? As for which direction to go... The only one I'd say that springs to mind as being relatively untapped in recent years is Science Fiction (Star Wars aside, have there been many other stand out successful comic runs for a Sci Fi setting? Not sure how successful Star Trek was in the comics...) As I said, the million dollar question. If I knew what would sell, and overcame every hurdle to get it into the shops, I'd be writing this post now from my own private south seas island whilst a butler ensure my ice cold drink was topped up constantly... In the meantime I'll be back driving trains on Monday morning
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 7, 2011 11:20:53 GMT -5
I think I've said before... I honestly think the comic book industry as a whole could have itself in a lot better financial position in a very short time if they would market more to children and lower the per-issue cost. Those two things would go a long, long way I think.
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Post by shenron on Oct 7, 2011 12:08:04 GMT -5
Ya, I do not have a problem with the police at all. I work side by side with them all of the time.
Supes did not have to engage the police but he did not hurt them, just melted their weapons. I really don't consider that douchy maybe a character flaw or something like that.
It is just refreshing to see that the city is actually against him. I do not know, I am sure it will change and everyone will realize he is a hero.
Oh, I am digging the outfit, I am glad they dropped the tights.
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 7, 2011 12:09:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I hate the new costumes. All of them
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Post by roxolid on Oct 7, 2011 12:09:47 GMT -5
The blue armour is actually growing on me. Not sure when he'll adopt it (and drop the pre reboot superboy look) but underpants on the outside was a good thing to drop.
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Post by shenron on Oct 7, 2011 12:12:05 GMT -5
I am not talking about the blue armor. I am talking about the Superboy look. The jeans, supes t-shirt and cape.
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 7, 2011 12:13:48 GMT -5
Hate that too <Edit> Actually, it would be fine without the cape that makes no sense with the rest of the getup.
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Post by roxolid on Oct 7, 2011 12:45:24 GMT -5
The jeans/t-shirt does nothing for me I'm afraid (what does he wear in his secret identity? Blue tights and a cape?) but I'll keep looking in on the Superman titles to see how they get on with it. The last Superman reboot I enjoyed (and tried to follow as best I could) was John Byrnes 1986 version. I think that guy has a problem with women too - most of them end up de-clothed and tortured, and yes, they all have square jaws as well The way he rationalised the powers was, to me, brilliant (something along the lines of 'solar battery' which I think was his idea) as was ditching some of the silly pre crisis stuff (Krypto, and probably other daft things too. In the 60s-70s I dare say there'd have been all sorts of super crap animals whizzing around with capes. Battling giant monkeys.) Be interesting to see where the reboot Supermans power is pitched. Is he still near the top of the tree, or higher? Move a mountain? The Moon? A planet? What can hurt him? The Byrne era Superman was flattened a couple of times by nukes if I recall, though they only Knocked him out. Pre-Crisis Superman would have whipped marshmellows out (at super speed) to toast as a 100-Megaton device exploded next to him...
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 7, 2011 13:58:17 GMT -5
I doubt they'll be changing the "solar battery" explanation for Superman's powers... simply put, it works.
In Action Comics he's still able to be smacked around by tanks and such, and he doesn't really fly so much as jump really really far... but in Superman #1 and Justice League #1, he's full-on Superman. He might not be tossing moons around for sport, but he's still pretty clearly the most powerful guy around (except that some dude named Adam beat the crap out of him according to Stormwatch #1)
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Post by takewithfood on Oct 7, 2011 14:15:40 GMT -5
Creating new heroes is a major risk. Take a look at the Image titles. At launch, they sold tons and tons of copies, had action figures, etc... now they're all persona non grata in the comic book world. As popular as Spawn once was, Batman will always come out on top over any "updated" ripoff. Part of the policy of creating new heroes is that you have to let them go when they're effectively "done". Spawn belongs in the 90's, and in that context he's still great. We don't need him around right now - we have even newer new characters. We don't need Batman around now, either - that is, we don't need new Batman comics to enjoy Batman. The old stuff is still there, all we need is access to it. It's okay to have some new stuff - I enjoy the new movies - but he doesn't have to constantly be going on new adventures for the end of time for Batman to exist and be awesome, you know? I think about this in terms of the characters I've roleplayed over the years. If I never let any of them die or retire, I'd still be playing them - and I would never have had the time to make any of the hundreds of new characters I've played since. At the time, it's always sad when you have to let go of an old character, but you can't yet imagine what new and awesome stuff is just around the corner if only you take the time to look for it. ~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 7, 2011 14:35:10 GMT -5
I know that's your opinion, and we've had this discussion before. The comics industry doesn't work like that, and it's never going to. People like continuity in heroes. That's why they're still writing stories about Conan the Barbarian and Billy the Kid.
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Post by roxolid on Oct 7, 2011 16:23:22 GMT -5
Wasn't there some kind of 'Showcase' style title that allowed new heroes (and villains) an issue or two to be paraded out to judge the readers opinion? Can't remember, will have been in the 70s/80s I suppose if there was one. Another one was Dial H for Hero, and I loved that because it was all about reader created characters the two main characters would change into with different powers and abilities/appearance. In this day and age, with instant post (email wasn't around back then) I think that sort of title would connect with the fans, especially younger ones.
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 7, 2011 16:25:53 GMT -5
There've always been "showcase" comics that rolled out new heroes. Okay, not always, but it's been a "thing" for most of the history of comic books. Can't think of any recent ones, actually...
I definitely think it would be a healthy way for them to go, though, and I suspect that's what DC Presents is meant to be for the New 52.
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Post by takewithfood on Oct 7, 2011 16:48:22 GMT -5
I know that's your opinion, and we've had this discussion before. The comics industry doesn't work like that, and it's never going to. People like continuity in heroes. That's why they're still writing stories about Conan the Barbarian and Billy the Kid. Like I said, there is room for some stuff. But rebooting the entire universe with essentially the same characters (only NOT the same) is going a little too far. And the industry DOES work like that, I just think it should do it a little more. Old characters often DO fall by the wayside, and new ones DO get created. EDIT: We DO seem to have this conversation a lot, though, don't we? ^__^ ~TWF
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