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Post by leska on Feb 6, 2013 2:02:46 GMT -5
Hello again everyone, I just had a small question about making modifiers. I've never really made them and kinda curious to how you can make them for specific things. Like the Stepford Cuckoo's Gestalt Link and other little things like that.
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Post by malice on Feb 6, 2013 19:18:56 GMT -5
The key to making a lot of modifiers is the "Action to Modifier" +3 to cost level "advantage." It's all over the place and generally awful for balance, but it will get you a lot of what you're after.
As suggested before me you may want to make the Stepford Cuckoos as a single character. That solves the problem of their powers while introducing a new one of playing 5 characters, but generally concepts like this work much better when written than played. Some people see this as a challenge to their roleplaying ability to play 5 characters at once, I see it as a mechanical nightmare for the GM because they have to threaten your character enough to challenge you but not so much as to kill one or more fifths of you.
Generally spreading out your vulnerability like that is a good tactic for an NPC but not a PC because it keeps an NPC from dying but it lets PCs get their strength chipped away in a much more vulnerable state.
Making 5 characters that are particularly strong together is a more effective party design. For that you end up doing something like: Power Boost 4 Action to Modifier Weaker away from Source (Other Cuckoos) Only works on Telepathy, and only on the Telepathy of other Cuckoos
Don't know how much that would cost exactly because the limitation to 4 other characters and one of their actions doesn't already exist. You end up getting together and raising your AN and energy by 4 each, which is pretty solid.
After that you want them to be able to use their energy together, so you make a couple of them stronger than others (They get the biggest investment from their sisters).
I haven't read Power Boost in awhile, but I think it's just as easy to have a couple sisters double their AN and gain the energy to use it, which is likely the reason for Power Boost's original high cost. Leadership comes with that 2 stone limit, but it also comes with a "can't assist telepathy" limit.
Good luck balancing it all, like I said I wouldn't personally encourage players to try to play things like the Stepford Cuckoos.
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Post by leska on Feb 8, 2013 15:49:30 GMT -5
Oh I don't have anyone playing the Stepford Cuckoos its just they kinda interested me and I wanted to see how that would be priced in the game. :3 And thank you very much for the break down on it. I'm sorry that I'm posting a lot about things like this Im kind of a noob >,> but I like to see how things work.
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Post by GPMC on Feb 10, 2013 12:51:24 GMT -5
problem with the power boost is that it causes the actions it boosts to go out of control when it leads to a raise above the an, and even burnout when twice that much. Have thought of a "highly controlled" option for the power boost to counter that. like an anti power out of control.
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Post by leska on Feb 12, 2013 2:10:13 GMT -5
Now that would be cool to see :3 an option where power boost doesnt become a "dick" action. But something like that i think would be like +3-4?
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Post by malice on Feb 12, 2013 19:03:49 GMT -5
...
Power Boost isn't originally just a "dick" action, especially since it's more expensive than a lot of other actions it boosts.
It is designed with both helping and hurting in mind.
Generally when I've looked at a power boost character they have only a very small chance of burning out anyone's power. The requirements for burning out a power are pretty high, you start with having to buy an expensive action and then using your expensive action to DOUBLE someone else's cheaper action.
The price of power boost comes therefore from it's rather extreme power to help. Just as I've said many times over the years on these boards, the least selfish options in MURPG are often the most devastating.
My common example is Force Field, people often put "can't help others" on it to cope with its high cost, but shrouding your team in 2x NO AP defense is worlds better than shielding only yourself. Since my group first discovered this fact they ALWAYS have a force field group in the guy now whose first job is to keep everyone's defense up. 1 stone from power boost = 2 more defense for everyone or a force field covering more ground. Or stones of power boost go to the group's heavy hitter so that while one character handles group defense while another handles group offense.
Speaking of group offense, another very devastating use of non-selfish power is Area Effect. In MURPG Area Effect attacks don't hit your allies unless you take the disadvantage that says they do. So you DON'T take that disadvantage, you pay more for the action, but now you have a power that lets you nuke the combat zone every single panel with your allies safe inside. In fact you can double up with the force field guy, have him encase the combat zone in a force field, and then nuke even harder without spending stones to reduce area (You still have to watch out for civilians and you can't protect anyone you don't know is there). He keeps your fire in and you make it hotter than hell for everyone but you and your allies.
1 stone of power boost is a massive jump on the Area/Leaping row of the D&R, so you put your power boost into your Area Effect player and suddenly you're concentrating a LOT of damage in a small space, wiping out enemies with lower defenses and letting your group focus their firepower where it's really needed. A 9 stone area attack is going to do a stone or two of damage to everyone with less than 9 non-dodge defense, and it's covering a square mile. If you save it for the second panel of combat so that you don't hit everyone's first-panel defense you stand a good chance thinning the enemy's ranks even more.
The trouble Power Boost has always had is that Leadership is better and more practical for nearly everything but telepathy and magic. Power Boost is pretty good, but it's a luxury power. Leadership is cheaper and gives you the slight boost you need to hit certain threshholds (Like hitting area 9 or 10 on the D&R). If you need more than 2 stones of help then typically no amount of stones will save you.
Anyway, back to my original point, Power Boost gets a lot of its cost from its capacity to help. The rest is there as a warning sign to anyone who think's it's cool to shut down people's powers for weeks at a time. De-powered heroes are about as much fun as de-powered vibrators.
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Post by GPMC on Feb 12, 2013 20:30:59 GMT -5
Yeah ? You're sure about that ? Always thought that the dead zone is a dead zone pretty much for everyone caught up in it.
But that power out of control isn't necessarily a bad thing from an example that was written in regards to that power boosting. Turned some force blast or so into an area effect force blast -> for free, or rather for just running out of control, but that's gm decision. Not a player controlled outburst after all. Unless you'd pump it up with some nice supportive powers like force field to "direct" the power in the direction you want it. Unless one'd take the "power dangerous to self" challenge at least yourself should be safe from the side effects. But as to the "funny things" factor, toasting yourself with a boosted power of someone else 'd be quite an awesome scene (though possibly a final one). take power boost with the power out of control option and you boost anyone touching you. "mighty fist of death, you get xxx stones of damage", "nope, sorry it's actually a bit ore then that, as I boost my opponents power while he punches me" that character better have some reconstitute self. And he better NEVER touch Nitro, Radioactive Man, or any other character of mass destruction. What good does reconstitute self do when there is no planet left to reconstitute at.
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Post by malice on Feb 13, 2013 19:26:25 GMT -5
Yeah ? You're sure about that ? Always thought that the dead zone is a dead zone pretty much for everyone caught up in it. I AM sure of it actually, but it doesn't work like that in ANY other RPG I've ever played, only MURPG. Every other game area effects come with the drawback of risking your allies. In this game they don't, unless you take the disadvantage. GMs may prefer it to run it like other RPGs where area effects don't discriminate, but they should warn their players that they're saddling everyone with the disadvantage "can't shield others" and that players should therefore forget that disadvantage exists. As it is though in MURPG when you use an area effect you can keep it from hurting your allies.
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Post by GPMC on Feb 13, 2013 20:34:49 GMT -5
.. can't find anything suggesting that interpretation. can you toss me where you take this from ?
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Post by malice on Feb 13, 2013 21:55:56 GMT -5
.. can't find anything suggesting that interpretation. can you toss me where you take this from ? Primarily the "can't shield others" disadvantage. I can't give page numbers or anything because I've been searching for my books since we cleaned the house for Christmas. It's in the X-Men Book though. If I could find my book I'd also check Chamber's CAD, but only because I'm curious and those curiosities get magnified when you can't satisfy them. I don't know what he has on his CAD, he may be irrelevant to the discussion for all I remember. More importantly though you'll find just as little information suggesting your interpretation. Most people just default to what they remember from other RPGs without realizing this one plays differently. There are scraps of information supporting both interpretations, but there are only buyable rules supporting mine, making it the only logical default. For the most part I'll pull from an old post: To answer you question about Area of Effect: As far as I've ever been able to make out this is one of the areas where MURPG CAN diverge from the trend most other RPGs follow. In other RPGs you have to worry about friends with AoE attacks, but in MURPG the default AoE advantage doesn't threaten friends. In other RPGs you have to apply the ability to protect them from your power, in MURPG you have to apply the inability to do so with the "others not shielded" disadvantage. This creates an effect where characters using area of effect powers seem to automatically possess the power to keep their attack from threatening friends. MOST GMs I've seen run MURPG AoE just like every other RPG's AoE, which is "if you're in it you're in it," and there is no shaping it or protecting people without an advantage. This makes plenty of sense from a balance perspective and is a perfectly legitimate interpretation of the rules. The area affect section pretty clearly says "everyone" in the area gets hit, which is why the traditional AoE is a legitimate interpretation of the rules, but the section on Area of Effect never really paints this as a bad thing. I believe this is primarily due to sacrifice in comics being depicted as a personal decision each person makes, rather than the more realistic likelihood that someone with the power to vaporize your common enemies saw you as an acceptable casualty. Sacrificing yourself deliberately is considered heroic, while others sacrificing you because you're expendable is something most people don't like too much. So the writers never assumed that you'd look at your teammate who is surrounded by enemies and blast the lot of them, or they assumed you would only do this if your friend was immune to or highly resistant to your attack. Basically they don't seem to have considered the idea of allies in the blast zone at all. There are two problems with the traditional AoE being the default AoE in MURPG: First, there is NO advantage that allows you to protect your friends. This means you can't do it without house rules, and the absence of this advantage suggests that you don't need to protect them because they're already safe. The second reason is that the "other's not shielded" advantage has no purpose in a world with traditional RPG AoE. With all that in mind, I figure MURPG AoE is just the inverse of most other RPGs and you have to take the disadvantage to endanger your friends (Or just CHOOSE to blast them as well, like if they have Energy Absorption/Reflection) but the default is that they're safe within the blast zone. I prefer this interpretation for the reasons I've listed, but also because it makes MURPG just a tad bit more unique and special. It ends up being up the GM ultimately anyway, so you're free to do it how you like in games you run. Going by the rules though, I see more evidence supporting the idea that players can simply protect their friends from their attacks.
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Post by leska on Feb 20, 2013 19:15:35 GMT -5
Ok I got an issue and its getting me confused. When it comes to ap they looked at the character i made to assist them and they said i priced her actions wrong. Somehow they priced her psi weapon much more differently then i did and it was costing ridiculous amounts. I priced her psi weapon at 9 with an ap option of 3 and then additional disadvantage of it cannot be used for ranged combat for -2 and it does not have a stun option which i threw a -1 on and somehow they said it would cost her 20 more to have ap since its mod to there is additional cost and somehow her psi weapon is 40? So have i been pricing it wrong to give ap just +3 onto the cost of her weapon or what?
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Post by malice on Feb 21, 2013 20:16:42 GMT -5
Psi-Weapons at 9 with -3 in disadvantages and +3 in advantages costs 25 stones, or cost level 12.
Your two disadvantages you applied are sort of custom territory though, so they may have disputed your pricing of those.
If they didn't dispute those though then AP is +3, Psi-Weapons are normally +3, and then your disadvantages were -3, that equals +3 total on an AN of 9. That's cost level 12, or 25 stones.
Psi-Weapons CAN get expensive fast, but whoever is arguing with you doesn't seem to know how or why. Dagger in the Spidey Guide bought hers at a price equivalent to the Phoenix Force, which is one of the many issues with the game. You hit a certain cost level and the pricing system just falls apart.
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Post by leska on Feb 21, 2013 20:21:44 GMT -5
One of my rpers says pricing is different because its a Modifer turned advantage. Normally I wouldn't care but I'm not Gm in this one. Honestly the fact that ap is a mod is kind of confusing.
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Post by malice on Feb 22, 2013 10:21:42 GMT -5
It's an advantage, period. AP is +3 to cost level, and it only gets cheaper. Nothing makes it more expensive. The most anyone ever pays for AP is +3 to cost level, it's cheaper if you have Claws, but never more expensive than +3.
BTW I can't think of anything that just adds to the cost of an advantage. They're all available at the prices listed, and certain actions and modifiers get discounts, but they never get more expensive.
I've never even heard an argument around "modifier turned advantage," and I've argued a lot about the rules over the years.
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Post by leska on Feb 22, 2013 12:19:11 GMT -5
I might just quit that Rp cause its not even fun to play anymore. My character has a Target on her head because they are trying to place her psi weapon under the rules of an actual weapon. It's bs all together. What's the point in playing if my character gonna get screwed over while his character with illusions can do whatever?
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