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Post by Rinjo on May 8, 2015 23:14:58 GMT -5
I'm not against playing female Thor for the record. I hadn't considered her relationship with Cap. My brain was focused on the various choke holds Stark would find himself in. Which would probably only make things worse.
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Post by Rinjo on May 8, 2015 23:49:55 GMT -5
Ok... thoughts?
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Post by Dhark on May 9, 2015 1:19:51 GMT -5
Ugh. I **WAS** happy with my Hulk until I saw your Thor.... Although, maybe I'm not reading Transform Self correctly. BOTH lesser and greater versions together must equal stone count of 85+5 right? Not 85+5 just for Hulk, right? THE HULK=================== (BRIEF)BIO/HISTORY:As cinematic Hulk bio =================== CHARACTER NAME: The Hulk ALIASES: Dr. Robert "Bruce" Banner, Bruce, Banner, Banno, David B, Mr. Green, The Big Gun, The Big Gun SPECIES: Human [Mutate] GENDER: Male HAIR: Black EYES: Green HEIGHT: 5'9" | 8'5" WEIGHT: 185lbs | 1,200lbs=================== IMAGE/PORTRAIT =================== ABILITY SCORES Total: 36W 02R=================== INT 07 (06W)* 02 (02R) STR 02 (01R) 09* (15W) AGI 02 (01R) 03 (01W) SPD 02 (01R) 04 (02W) DUR 02 (02W) 05 (09W) *(i) INT as Energy/Regen *Efficient=================== VITALS=================== HEALTH 02/02 | 05/05 ENERGY 14/14 | 15/15 REGENERATION 7 | 07=================== ACTIONS Total: 12W 01R=================== COMBAT [CLOSE] 00 (00) 01 (06W) *Base Cost AN *Ability Score AND Weapon Bonus +05CL *Automatic Collateral Damage -01CL *Damage x3 +04CL *Brawling *Cannot be Improved by LoE -02CLCOMBAT [RANGED] 00 (00) 01 (01W) *Base Cost AN *Ability Score AND Weapon Bonus +05CL *Automatic Collateral Damage -01CL *Thrown Objects/Weapons *Cannot be Improved by LoE -02CL
GENERAL KNOWLEDGE 03 (02W) 00 (00W) *Base Cost AN+01CL *INT Bonus *Medical Doctorate *PHD in Biochemistry *PHD in Computational Nuclear Science and Engineering SOCIAL SKILLS 01 (01R) 04 (02W) *Base Cost AN *Scientific Circles *IntimidationTHIEF 03 (01W) 00 (00W) *Base Cost AN *Evasion *Forgery *Blending In =================== MODIFIERS Total: 43W XXR=================== TRANSFORM SELF *Baseline Text = Bruce * Green Text = The HulkBERSERKER RAGE 06 (04W) *MN to STR related actions (Lifting, Fighting, Leaping, etc) *Base Cost MN+03CL *Healing Factor increases to Enhanced (01W/Panel) +01CL *Rampage: No stones (red or GP) may be applied to defense -01CL *Hulk MUST full attack something/someone EVERY panel (allies not excluded) -01CL *Hulk cannot willfully cease rampaging or transform back into Bruce until GM declares -01CL *After the Rage ends, Hulk reverts to an unconscious Bruce Banner. Bruce is nearly catatonic with fatigue and shame for 01 Hour per panel the rage lasted -01CL
HEALING FACTOR [ACCELERATED] (12W) *Base Cost MN+04CL *01W per 02 panels *03R per 02W per panel
IMMUNITY TO DISEASES AND VIRUSES (01W) *Base Cost 3W *As a Legacy of the Erskine Formula, every Military/Organization in "the know" wants Hulk's blood accordingly for experimentation/exploitation -02CL
LEAPER 03 (01W) *MN to Leaping/Jumping efforts *Base Cost MN
TOUGHNESS 08 (25W) *Base Cost MN+03CL *No x2 +01CL *No AP +01CL *Any time Toughness is bypassed or overcome, GM may activate Berserker Rage -01CL
=================== EQUIPMENT Total: FREE=================== Burner iPhones *Untraceable UNSTABLE MOLECULE PANTS *Gift from Dr Richards FAKE ID's | CREDIT CARDS JEEP *"Borrowed" WEALTH *Flat Broke *02W Refund MEDICAL KIT =================== CHALLENGES Total: 05W XXR=================== I'M ALWAYS ANGRY 01 Bruce lives with the burning gama fueled rage of The Hulk within him. While finally accepting this anger as ever-present has allowed him to exercise unprecedented restraint, the Big Green Guy is always just an emotional slip away...INTERNATIONAL FUGITIVE 02 Bruce has been flagged in most nations as a Fugitive to be detained at best, to a Shoot On Site target at worst. His tenure as a SHIELD asset and even an Avenger are of negligible consequence in the face of the credible threat his mere existence has and does offer to any urban population. Collateral damages inflicted by his rampages has exceeded the budgets of many third world countries, never mind the injury and death tolls... As a result, the genius Dr Banner must live an off-grid existence-- relying on fake ID's and Fake Credit Cards to survive. I TRIED TO PUT A BULLET IN MY BRAIN ONCE... 01 ...and the Big Guy spit it back out. Bruce is a tortured soul, penitent for the scope of devastation that he's unleashed on the world all the while knowing that such wrongs can never be righted.ROMANOFF'S LULLABY 01 Bruce logged countless hours of psychotherapy to create a psychological failsafe "lulaby" to calm the raging beast (if temporarily). Only one person on Earth has been trusted with this "off-button"-- Natasha Romanoff (The Black Widow).
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Post by Rinjo on May 9, 2015 1:33:25 GMT -5
You get one full stone cad (hulk)
One half stone cad (banner)
Don't use me as a baseline. I make game breaking cads. I temper them with self limiting role playing. .
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Post by Rinjo on May 9, 2015 1:37:52 GMT -5
Also, remember that in the comics Thor was created specifically to be the guy to beat hulk.
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Post by Rinjo on May 9, 2015 1:38:11 GMT -5
That was the entire reason they brought him into marvel
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Post by comicfan on May 9, 2015 2:26:25 GMT -5
I was always under the impression that both forms made up the combined total...as in Hulk's modifiers, and abilities were full price, while Banner's was half price, both had to pay full price for actions, and with the same 85 stones.
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Post by WildKnight on May 9, 2015 6:18:53 GMT -5
I was always under the impression that both forms made up the combined total...as in Hulk's modifiers, and abilities were full price, while Banner's was half price, both had to pay full price for actions, and with the same 85 stones. That is correct, and that is why "Transform Self" = unplayable characters. They will always be weaker than everyone else at the same stone count. The only way the Transform Self rule works RAW is if each of your forms has a distinctly useful ability. For instance, if you've got two forms, one of which flies and shoots laser beams, and the other of which has a massive strength score and toughness, that might be worth splitting the stones... but if you're doing the classic Transform Self type characters (Don Blake Thor, Bruce Banner Hulk, and so on), you've usually got one form that is virtually worthless, and the stones you invest in it come to nothing more than... a role-playing opportunity. That's fine if its a handful of stones, but since Banner is brilliant and most likely has Inventing and/or Genetic Engineering, we're talking about a huge investment. Personally I've always advocated "you only pay for that which is extraordinary and/or which exceeds the capacity of the other form." So if Banner is a normal human except for his Intelligence and science skills (whatever Actions you choose to demonstrate those...), the only thing you pay to represent Banner is the cost of his Int and science skills. Added to that; the MURPG system is not kind to brawlers. They're energy sinks, since they have almost nothing in the way of effective Modifiers. Depending on how liberal your GM is feeling, Hulk has significant drawbacks that could be exploited to reduce the cost of CAD building. For instance... Hulk's Strength could easily be tagged with the "collateral damage" Disadvantage, and if not his Strength, certainly his "Madder is Badder" or "Rage" Modifier. Growth without so much actual growth (say, only growing a few inches for each AN) and with a Disadvantage limiting it to a reaction to taking damage is another way to represent Hulk's capacity to get tougher as a fight goes on without spending billions of stones to do so.
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Post by WildKnight on May 9, 2015 6:21:28 GMT -5
I'm not against playing female Thor for the record. I hadn't considered her relationship with Cap. My brain was focused on the various choke holds Stark would find himself in. Which would probably only make things worse. I was just cracking wise about the fact that, except in the Ultimates Universe, Cap has never really seemed to show any gender bias that I'm aware of... in spite of the fact that it would have been totally embedded in his culture when he went off to war, and he never had a chance to come back to the America that had survived on women's labor for years.
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Post by mcr on May 9, 2015 10:37:49 GMT -5
So I'm struggling between two options here, partially depending on how you all feel about them: Option 1 (Total cost: 83w+5w challenges)*** Character Name: Wanda Maximoff Moniker: The Scarlet Witch Species: Mutant Appearance: Humanoid Hair: Auburn Eyes: Blue Height: 5'7" Weight: 130 lbs. Age: 26 [ABILITIES] (15w)/(20w)* ============ Intelligence: 6 (4w) Strength: 2 (2r)/1 (1r) Agility: 3 (1w) Speed: 2 (2r) [Durability 6 (12w)] Health: 2/6 (2r)/6 (4w)* Energy: 6 (4w) Regeneration: 6 (4w) [ACTIONS] (69w)/(64w) ============ Close Combat 2 (2r) - Agility Bonus or Weapon Bonus - Trained by Avengers - Playing the Odds (Wanda uses her powers to full advantage in combat) Concentration 4 (6w) - Intelligence Bonus - [RESERVED] General Knowledge 2 (1w) - Intelligence Bonus - Mathematics - [RESERVED] [Mastery of Probability 9 (60w)/8 (55w) - Extraordinary Power/Scope +1 CL - Substitute Mastery for Strength +1 CL - Create/Manipulate Element + 1 CL - Combine with Close/Ranged Combat + 2 CL - Elemental Force Blast +1 CL - Area of Effect +3 CL - Immunity to Element +1 CL]* Ranged Combat 2 (2r) - Weapon Bonus - Trained by Avengers - Playing the Odds (Wanda uses her powers to full advantage in combat) Social Skills 2 (2r) - Traveler - In Her Own World Modifiers (4w) ========== Mental Defenses 6 (4w) Wealth 0 (0w) Challenges ========== Being a mutant (3w) Overwhelmed (2w) - Wanda trades in multiple universes, futures, probabilities, and contingencies. She is often lost in the sheer amount of stimuli that assault her on a constant basis. BIOGRAPHY ========= Wanda Maximoff is the illegitimate daughter of the mutant supremacist Magneto. Hidden away from her father, she and her twin brother Pietro have long lived the lives of outcasts, travelling from place to place to avoid wearing out their welcome. Wanda can be very off-putting at first glance - distant and taciturn by nature, she relies on her brother to keep her grounded. She is also a gifted mutant in her own right, and can manipulate probabilities and fate to her advantage. Struggling with the enormous burden of such power, she longs for true understanding of her gift - and curse. * I haven't built a CAD in a really long time, so if the numbers are off I'm happy to correct them. I wasn't sure if health, regen, and energy being separate meant buying them separate, so I think I've properly calculated for both contingencies. **A note on the intended mechanics: It has been suggested that without further context, an ability of this nature might veer on the edge of game-breaking. For my (and our purposes) I imagine this power working similarly to telekinesis for most uses (Wanda squints really hard and things move around based on how hard she squints), with the probability effect for flavor. I'm sure there are other Rule of Cool/flavor uses that might arise under specific conditions that I can't sort of in the abstract say in advance I'd use this for, but I'm definitely open to Rule 0 on this, so if further modification is necessary let me know. Suffice to say I do not necessarily imagine a Franklin Richards or "No More Mutants" type of reality warper whose basic approach to conflict is: "Rules don't apply to me". ***If no one here has seen "The Librarians", I highly recommend it. I also did not totally steal the idea of a mathemagician from them.
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Post by mcr on May 9, 2015 10:45:24 GMT -5
Option 2 (Total Cost [RESERVED])* Character Name: Illyana Rasputin Moniker: Magik Species: Mutant Appearance: Humanoid Hair: Blonde Eyes: Blue Height: 5'7" Weight: 140 lbs. Age: 23 [ABILITIES] (15w)** ============ Intelligence: 4 (2w) Strength: 2 (2r) Agility: 5 (3w) Speed: 2 (2r) Health: 2 (2r) Energy: 6 (4w) Regeneration: 6 (4w) [ACTIONS] () ============ Close Combat 5 (3w) - Agility Bonus or Weapon Bonus - Trained by the Avengers - Survivor of Limbo - A Step in the Right Direction (Illyana uses her space-time manipulation abilities to great effect) - The Swift Edge of Justice (Illyana knows how to fight with her Soulsword) - Trained by the X-Men Hunting/Tracking 5 (3w) - [RESERVED] [STEPPING DISCS - RESERVED] - Basically, I imagine this being sort of a power suite that can be used defensively to create barriers (like Force Field), for transit purposes if necessary, and for cool close combat effects to attack enemies from unexpected angles Soulsword [RESERVED] - As Psi-Weapon Ranged Combat 2 (2r) - Weapon Bonus - Trained by Avengers - Survivor of Limbo Social Skills 2 (2r) - Tenacity - Steely soul Modifiers (w) ========== [RESERVED] Wealth 0 (0w) Challenges (5w) ========== Being a Mutant (3w) Code of Conduct (1w) - Illyana lives to do justice, and does not hesitate to render justice where justice is needed. Haunted Past (1w) - Illyana spent the better part of her adolescence and early adulthood in the mystical domain of Limbo. She returned, but hardened and scarred, both physically and psychically. BIOGRAPHY ========= Illyana Rasputin is the younger sister of the X-Man stalwart commonly known as Colossus. Illyana seems to have inherited the personality meant for the iron giant - whereas he is a jovial and kind-hearted soul, Illyana is cold, steely, and ruthless. How much of this is based on her natural personality and how much is based on the years she spent trapped in the alternate dimension of Limbo, fighting for survival, is unclear. Illyana believes in swift and efficient justice and will not hesitate to answer the call to arms - Avengers Assemble, indeed. *A note on the intended mechanics and cost: The "only two actions per panel" sort of hurt my idea of Magik, who I imagine zipping around the battlefield and creating various portals and doors for flavor/Rule of Cool to attack from unanticipated angles. I also don't remember exactly how Psi-Weapon works, except that I remember it adding stones to combat, so while I can accurately calculate its base cost, I'm not actually sure if she can use Psi-Weapon, Close Combat, and a flavor-esque modifier/action to wreak havoc. Perhaps even more so than Wanda, whose shtick is basically sort of the walking plot device, I wouldn't even begin to know how to mechanically represent Illyana's more recent plot-device powers from the comics (Limbo Magician, P5 remnants, etc.). So it's perhaps for the best that I stay away from those. I imagine Illyana as a ruthless, take no-guff survivalist, adaptable to the most severe of circumstances. So if she *needs* to be a walking plot device for the GM, feel free to use her that way, but I certainly don't intend to play her as one. (As with Wanda) ** I'm late for work, so I'll edit in the appropriate calculations for abilities when I have time.
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Post by Dhark on May 9, 2015 12:41:11 GMT -5
Also, remember that in the comics Thor was created specifically to be the guy to beat hulk. Fair... But it wasn't for a single panel one shot hit, and IIRC there have been instances of each beating the other! Here's hoping Donald Blake stones or Cernunnos ruling on the price of alternate forms levels it out at least a little. It wasn't "We have a Thor"... It was "We have a Hulk" :-p
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Post by WildKnight on May 9, 2015 12:53:42 GMT -5
Also, remember that in the comics Thor was created specifically to be the guy to beat hulk. Fair... But it wasn't for a single panel one shot hit, and IIRC there have been instances of each beating the other! Here's hoping Donald Blake stones or Cernunnos ruling on the price of alternate forms levels it out at least a little. It wasn't "We have a Thor"... It was "We have a Hulk" :-p The whole "who is/was/should be more powerful" thing in comics is kind of a moot point if you're going to argue based on history; remember, there was a time when Wolverine was an even match for the Hulk, and Cap once KO'd Thor in a single shot based on the premise that... Thor wasn't wearing his helmet. In terms of an RPG I'm inclined to believe that comparing firepower is only meaningful in so much as no one character should clearly outshine the other if those two characters are meant to represent similar things (as Thor and Hulk are). The two should represent a (hopefully friendly) rivalry... not a superior and inferior pairing of characters with similar purposes. They should be Superman and Wonder Woman... not Batman and Robin I hope we're all honest enough to recognize that "same number of stones" does not equal "same amount of power." ANYBODY can build a character that will smack Hulk around easily with fewer stones if RAW is followed to the letter. Unarmed brawlers < Armed Brawlers < "Special" Brawlers (like Psi-Weapon) < just about anything that isn't a brawler, quite frankly. Its why I tend to be extremely strict in judging CADs for Telepaths, Magicians, and "Masters" and give increasingly broad latitude as a concept travels further down the chain. I guess what I'm saying is, I feel Dhark's pain. Nobody wants to whine and sound entitled, but it simply isn't fun to be purely outclassed in the only thing your character contributes to the team.
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Post by Rinjo on May 9, 2015 12:58:33 GMT -5
My point was only that comparing the two is not really how you should define your CAD. If we end up fighting each other we will role play it realistically regardless of stats. We likely wouldn't even use stones. So no worries.
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Post by WildKnight on May 9, 2015 13:00:53 GMT -5
*breaks fingers of typist*
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