|
Post by Whitewing on May 24, 2005 16:31:28 GMT -5
Archaic Ranged Weapons AN=CL+1This skill allows the proficient use and basic field repair (to a limited extent, say replacing a bowstring) of weapons like bows, slings, crossbows and Wookie Bowcasters. It gets no ability bonus but agility can be bought for +2 with it, and it can be used in addition to the weapon modifier. Specilisations are the individual weapon types. Non specialised skill use incurs a -1 skill penalty. Someone can use these weapons without this skill but they use the weapon modifier and a -3 skill modifier. Yeah, it's harsh, but have YOU ever tried to hit anything with a bow? This is relatively cheap, but the weapons aren't the easiest to come by. CommentsFor use when the blaster runs dry - a skilled user might not be able to deliver the punch of a blaster but the weapons are usually silent, cheap, and not as 'clumsy or random' as a blaster Rules for Action Box:
- Agility Bonus at +2 CL
- Weapon Modifier
- Penalties for unspecialised use
- Combat using weapon at a distance
- Split stones for multiple targets
- (Insert Specialities)
Paul The wookie bowcaster is a laser crossbow. Not sure if this would apply to them. But I like what I see.
|
|
|
Post by Manticore on May 25, 2005 5:08:55 GMT -5
The reason why I said that somebody with dual lightsabers could not deflect blaster bolts is that it is nigh impossible to deflect a ball with two bats.
|
|
|
Post by Manticore on May 25, 2005 7:09:38 GMT -5
Some work on some vibroweapons:
Vibrodagger (+1, 2x dmg) (Requires power cell) Legal in most civilised areas +1 to conceal it.
Vibroaxe (+2, 2x dmg) (Requires 2 power cells) Limited armour piercing: 1 (I.e. disregards 1 red stone of armour or toughness.) Illegal in most civilised areas.
Vibroblade (+2, 2x dmg) (Requires 1 power cell) Illegal in most civilised areas.
Force pike (+4, 2 x dmg, may stun) (Requires 2 power cells) Diplomatic weapon- i.e. semi-legal in most areas. Set to "STUN" or "LETHAL". Carries an electric charge through its tip, but is also a vibro-weapon. Its effectiveness is reduced to (+2, 2x dmg) when used against beings with electrical immunity. Hideously expensive (used by Palpatine's Red Guards and almost nobody else.) Requires two hands to wield.
Stun Baton (+3, stun damage only) (Requires a power cell) Legal, used by law-enforcement officers usually. WARNING: May have adverse effects on health of victim- e.g. it has been remarked that if this is used on a pregnant woman it has 50% chance of causing a miscarriage.
|
|
|
Post by meetgrinder on May 25, 2005 7:25:16 GMT -5
Not sure how well this will go down, but I think Lightsabers should be (sharp intake of breath) X3 or even X4 damage, and blasters x3. Vibro weapons maybe x2, but let's face it - the heroes in the films were 'winged' with a blaster shot (Lessee, Leia, Chewbacca, Luke) and all suffered some damage. Anyone else who got shot in the films by a blaster went down (ok, not Darth Vader, but then he knows a few parlour tricks). It's safe to assume Leia, Chewie and Luke can dodge. Your average stormtrooper will go down with one shot though it seems.And so will Ewoks. DIE TEDDY BEARS DIE! *flips rifle into 'auto' mode and mows down whole forest worths of the lil critters*
As far as I can recall, only in one instance in the 6 films did anyone get struck by a lightsaber and NOT have a limb amputated. Hmmm... maybe x3 damage and a limb amputated, or x4 damage, victims' choice...?
A no-prize for guessing who inflicted the non-lethal strike, where it happened, and on whom.
|
|
|
Post by Manticore on May 25, 2005 8:12:34 GMT -5
Luke Skywalker hit Darth Vader a glancing hit in Empire strikes back and as far as I can recall nothing happened.
|
|
|
Post by Manticore on May 25, 2005 8:27:41 GMT -5
In the Official Star Wars Revised Core Rulebook. This is a comparison. Lightsabers do 2d8 damage. Vibroblades do 2d6 damage. Blaster Pistols do 3d8 damage.
Presumably, Lightsabers can cut through anything, but they require a sufficient strength input from their wielder to do so. (Remember Qui Gon Jin in Phantom menace cutting through the blast doors?)
Considering that none of the aliens or humans in the Star Wars films are superhuman, a Blaster that did (+4, 2x dmg) would be more than sufficient to kill them several times over. Lightsaber's main ability is that they have armour piercing. I am divided as to whether to give them 2x damage as I think that (+5, armour piercing) is already pretty good going. It's better than Wolverine's claws, and when did you last see an ordinary human hit by one of his claws survive without serious maiming?
|
|
|
Post by Whitewing on May 25, 2005 9:32:23 GMT -5
The only problem with compairing lightsabers to Wolverine's claws is that with claws, Wolvie can add a stat bonus. That isn't the case here.
So, with that in mind, it could go two ways. Lightsaber combat could be changed to allow a stat to be added in and the lightsaber is treated like claws. Or, lightsabers are given x2 or higher damage.
I lean more toward the x2 damage to help limit how much can be put into lightsaber defense. After all, one shot through the stomach and Qui-Gon Jinn was down and out. x2 on a +5 weapon means that with no resistance, already 10 stones are getting through. Person with the combat skill that was shown with the Jedi, maybe a light saber skill of 5 or 6 or higher, has the potential of 20 or more stones getting through if there is no defense. So that is 7 white stones of health damage that ignores armor. That is huge.
For blasters, in the books they have them as a +6 weapon without x2 damage. I am not sure how I feel about that.
Maybe something more like;
Hold out blaster - +2, X2 dmg small and easily conceal Blaster - +3, x2 dmg Blaster Rifle, +4, x2 dmg Wookie Bowcaster, +4, x2 dmg
|
|
|
Post by Manticore on May 25, 2005 11:52:36 GMT -5
Personally I think that (+5, armour piercing) is already large enough considering that the protagonists in this game would not be superhuman. This makes them different, but certainly not inferior to vibro-weapons. (Vibro-weapons rely on cutting power and vibration, lightsabers rely on their ability to pierce armour.) However, I have been consistently accused of undervaluing weapons so I am inclined to put it to the vote.
|
|
|
Post by Whitewing on May 25, 2005 12:19:32 GMT -5
It depends on how common armor of any sort is. Most flight suits don't give much in the way of armor, and anything really thick and protective would limit movement. Really, you only saw Stormtroopers and bounty hunters in armor. So, just making it armor piercing doesn't seem enough to me now that I think about it.
I am also leaning toward it because weapons should be deadly. People who try to use lightsabers without proper training run the risk of killing themselves because it is so deadly.
Stormtrooper armor was also design to reflect near miss blaster bolts but really couldn't hold up to a direct hit. Which gets into what Stormtrooper armor should be rated at. +4 to defense? Should it limit some movement?
|
|
|
Post by Manticore on May 25, 2005 12:32:15 GMT -5
Well, it definitely was hard for the actors to wear it, so it probably should restrict movement.
|
|
|
Post by meetgrinder on May 25, 2005 12:33:36 GMT -5
If I were designing a genre specific version of the MURPG for Star Wars, I would have several version of the 'Lightsaber' skill, depending on 'stance'. Lightsaber/Defensive Stance AN=CL- All stones used are shifted to defence, specifically parrying another lightsaber attack. It's cheap, but limited. Add an ability bonus (usually agility) at +1 CL. Can be split between attackers. e.g. Obi Wan throws his stones into this skill against Anakin. It's cheap, and he has a high skill level - Anakin isn't getting through the defenses this panel. Lightsaber/Overhead swing AN=CL+3- comes with an agility bonus and increases the multiplier of the damage inflicted by +1. If you're doing x2 damage, it goes up to +3. Stones cannot be split between attackers or used for defence. e.g. Anakin lashes down at Obi Wan. If he strikes, he does damage multiplier +1. It's not cheap, and so it will generally be defended against. Anakin must wait for the right time to strike, when he senses Obi Wan is tiring. Lightsaber/Arc swing AN=CL+5- comeas with an agility bonus and a strength bonus, increases multiplier of the damage inflicted by +1, and counts as an area attack against everyone within close combat range, friend or foe. Cannot use stones for defence. e.g. Obi Wan is surrounded by droids, so swings in a wide arc. All of the droids in Close Combat range have to defend against a (in this case) 8 stones attack at +1 multiplier. A pile of broken droid parts collects at the Jedi Masters' feet. Lightsaber/Parry and push AN=CL+2- An agility bonus can be added for +2. The skill can only be used for defence BUT if the defence exceeds the attack the attacker is thrown back, off balance, and the defender gains a number of red stones bonus to their next attack (must be next panel) equal to the difference in scores OR they can add it to their effective agility when determining order of action. e.g. Anakin uses this skill at 9 stones, against Count Dookus' attack of 7. He has 2 red stones to either increase his attack next panel OR increase his effective agility to increase his chance of going first. Lightsaber Shield AN=CL+4- only effective against blaster bolts. The lightsaber wielding Jedi/Sith can set up a defence (+ weapon modifier) against incoming blaster bolts. In essence it's a defensive skill, BUT if the bolt is deflected, the difference in stones, up to the original attacks' stones, can be used to attack the originator. Costs +1 stone extra (not added to defence, and not counting against the AN) per extra incoming attack. e.g. Anakin sets up a Lightsaber shield of 9. Three droids attack him. To defend against all three costs an extra +2 stones (+1 per attack) so costs 11 red in total. The incoming attacks are 5 stones, 7 stones and 4 stones (the droid is having an off day). The blasts are reflected back at the value of 4 stones, 2 stones and 4 stones at the originators. ================ If two purely defensive stances are used against each other, the stones are effectively wasted that panel as the combatants parry, swing and parry each other whilst looking for an opening. Disclaimer: I haven't done the maths on any of these. The skills were off the top of my head but the fighting styles way of lightsaber use I've wanted to use to make the battles last longer rather than a 1 panel (30 seconds) CC exceeds defense=you win. The battles in the film between lightsaber wielding opponents, with the exception of the Emporer carving through Jedis like butter in the new film (when Qui Gon confronts him) are dramatic, and last longer than the game would normally represent. The math needs to be done (ask Sphynx if he has time?) but I believe these skills would add much more 'flavour'. Additional skills such as two lightsaber fighting (two weapon modifiers, can split between attack/defence, not cheap) 'Quarterstaff' (a la Darth Maul), 4 lightsaber fighting (even more expensive, see Gen. Grevious. He's not very good at it either cause it's so expensive ) can be added to suit. With the changed D&R the max Durability should be 6, maybe 7 for venerable Jedi (Yoda, Emporer) so lots of stones to go round. Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by Whitewing on May 25, 2005 12:45:24 GMT -5
I like the ideas, but I worry about making too many skills or action slots for one specific action.
The more skills you have, the more players have to spend on character advancement. I like adding flavor to games, but I worry about having too different action boxes that govern each aspect of a saber fight. My own preferance is to make each of those styles a +1 or +2 under the lightsaber action. Meaning that you may not be able to afford all of them at once, but by spending the lines, you are able to access that type of attack.
One of the reasons that I don't want to add a ability bonus to something like lightsaber combat is to make the skill mean something. A person who is skilled in using a saber is going to be able walk over someone who isn't and that can be done with the numbers. I also think it helps force players in a saber fight to look at how they spend stones. I need to put 5 into saber to attack, and 2 into agility to try to get into a better position, there go my two actions.
By the mechanics of it being a game, sabers are not as deadly as they are in the movies. If only one points of saber gets through, they are only losing 1 white stone, so it isn't as deadly as it seems. That, I think, is better done with flavor in the telling.
I would agree that max for durability should be 6 and anyone above that would need a good reason to have it.
|
|
|
Post by Scriptus on May 25, 2005 14:02:19 GMT -5
I think the lightsabers power level is pretty good at +5 with A.P. That puts it on roughly the same level as the main gun of a battle tank.
One of the reason that guns and other weapons recieve 2x dmg is because of how bullets do their damage. If you've got a hollow point or something similar the person is cut to pieces inside and will likely bleed to dead. No way to get all the crap out.
A light saber is a clean cut and the wound is cotterized (sp) all at the same time. This allows you to slice off arms and legs with the best of them but you're not going to bleed out after you lose your arm. Wounds to vital organs are still deadly though.
Is there a way that we could modify the weapon so that damage done has a more permenant effect? Maybe the GM's should just have this at the forefront of their minds when they are dealing with Jedi and Sith.
|
|
|
Post by Manticore on May 25, 2005 15:07:30 GMT -5
Cutting off an arm or leg is a pretty permanent bit of damage- the equivalent of removing all of somebody's white stones. How about, instead of death the person who loses all their white stones may choose to lose a limb. This doesn't stop whoever struck them down finishing the job though. However, it may give them more time, e.g. in Empire strikes back when Luke jumps down a vent shaft. Blaster shots also cause cauterised wounds. In one of the novels or something there was a point where somebody shot a blaster at somebody's hand, removing the hand and cauterising the stump. So, if all somebody's stones are removed by a blaster then the same thing could happen.
Modification to Dual-wielding: If a creature/droid has 3 or more arms then they may use more than 2 lightsabers. The second lightsaber adds +2 to the weapon modifier but every other similar weapon after that adds (+1) more to the weapon modifier. General Grievous uses lots of lightsabers but they don't add a massive amount to his weapon modifier. They need the Dual-wielding skill to do this.
I think that Yoda and the Emperor use the special intelligence rule. Neither of them are conventionally very tough.
|
|
|
Post by Whitewing on May 25, 2005 16:12:46 GMT -5
One of the reason that guns and other weapons recieve 2x dmg is because of how bullets do their damage. If you've got a hollow point or something similar the person is cut to pieces inside and will likely bleed to dead. No way to get all the crap out. I am wondering if x2 damage would make sense for blasters. Running into blaster fire shouldn't be a sure fire recipe for death. I have the same concerns about x2 damage for vibro weapons. Then again, if we take the idea that a 3 in durability is a normal human, then a person with reasonable defenses shouldn't be taken down in one non-direct hit from a blaster at x2 damage. So, which seems more realistic to you folks? Person A with a lightsaber attacks person B. Person A has a lightsaber combat skill of 5 and puts all 5 stones into attacking person B, a 10 stone attack. Person B has close combat of 4 and agility of 3. Person B puts all 7 stones of attack into defense, and the attack hits for 3 stones. Without x2 damage, that is 1 w stone only. With x2 damage, it is 2 w stones. I honestly don't know which is better. The same issues applies with Blasters, but if we go with x2 damage for blasters, are blasters too deadly? Same with vibroweapons. Or, should double damage be eliminated on all weapon types and sabers just get an extra for being able to cut through armor? And if they don't do double damage, should the weapons modifiers be higher?
|
|