Modifier: Unstoppable (Revised)

[piratespice]

Like Immovability, I wasn't satisfied with how Unstoppable worked. As an Action, it was pretty much just Close Combat with 2x Damage, and maybe some extras, depending on how you interpret the rules. Ultimately, it seemed to me that it would work much better as a Modifier. So here I present you my new version of Unstoppable, in Modifier form.

UPDATE: Removed 2x Damage, and simplified it to do just what the name of the Modifier suggests. I'm not sure about the Cost Level. I fear +1 might be too cheap. I think only playtesting will tell.

UNSTOPPABLE
Cost Level = Modifier Number + 1 Level

Description
The “Irresistible Force.” This power gives the character to ability to crash though anything up to their Modifier Number on the D&R Hardness row and keep on moving. Plus, you gain free stones equal to your Modifier Number (or to your opponent’s Resistance) to resist any physical efforts to halt your movement, such as grappling attempts, Entanglement, a telekinetic grab, etc.

Comments
A limited-scope power, but one with a lot of punch under the right circumstances. (And you should have enough left over for, say, a little mental defense?)

Rule for Modifier Box:
• Unstoppable, +(X) stones to burst through Hardness, resist immobilization

[Neros]

hmm... So if i had Unstoppable of 5 (without strength bonus since its a MOD), then everything i touch while walking would recieve a 5 stone attack?

[piratespice]

No. At least that's not how I intended it. I suppose this needs some clarification. It should only work while charging (a la Juggernaut), and probably only if you've spent stones on an Action or Ability to actually charge. Thoughts?

EDIT: Okay, updated the description. Tell me if that makes more sense.

[Neros]

gives the character to ability to

BUT besides that.... To even be able to burst to something, you have to Charge, not walk, which Juggernaut does allot.
But you also have to put stones into a Movement Action/Ability (just guessing here),
to even be able to use the free MOD stones.
Or would that just be a appropriat Action/Ability like close combat or strength?

[piratespice]

neros said:

To even be able to burst to something, you have to Charge, not walk, which Juggernaut does allot.

Precisely.

But you also have to put stones into a Movement Action/Ability (just guessing here), to even be able to use the free MOD stones.
Or would that just be a appropriat Action/Ability like close combat or strength?

I'm envisioning that you'd have to spend stones on movement. Although you've just illustrated how this can get tricky as a Modifier. On one hand, you'd need to spend stones in a movement Action to make use of this Modifier. But the free stones from the Modifier would more likely apply to a combat Action (although the "bursting" ability and the free stones can work independantly of each other).

I think I need to think this one through a bit more.

[Neros]

Yea... Its tricky.... But i meant that juggernaut really never charges... He just walks... Or thats what i have seen him do... Never seen him run...

But i think it seems logical enough that you have to use a movement action AND say you are using the unspopable power,
But what about Close Combat? Then it would work like a Mod for that to, which would be like Targeting for Range Combat.

I would say that the Action used HAVE!! to be a movement action, since its UNSTOPPABLE, not unbeatable.
Uses close combat, shifts all stones into defense and tells he uses Unstoppable... Weeh... Free attack and lots of defense

But one of the things that makes this action tough is the Speed or Strength bonus. But you have removed that, YOU MONSTER!! *Goes to get the angry Peasent Mob with torches and pitchforks*

[piratespice]

neros said:

Yea... Its tricky.... But i meant that juggernaut really never charges... He just walks... Or thats what i have seen him do... Never seen him run...

Well, can't say I agree with you there. Sure, he's been known to simply push his way through a wall, but its not at all uncommon for him to bull rush his foes.

But i think it seems logical enough that you have to use a movement action AND say you are using the unspopable power,
But what about Close Combat? Then it would work like a Mod for that to, which would be like Targeting for Range Combat.

I would say that the Action used HAVE!! to be a movement action, since its UNSTOPPABLE, not unbeatable.
Uses close combat, shifts all stones into defense and tells he uses Unstoppable... Weeh... Free attack and lots of defense

The more I ponder this, the more I'm thinking Unstoppable (both the original and this one) simply put too many eggs in one basket. Maybe it should just be toned down to simply busting through obstacles; automatically overcoming Hardness up to MN, instead of bothering with damage bonuses. A damage bonus might make sense, but it seems to be the thing that overcomplicates the power. Characters like Juggernaut that should have the damage bonus can easily get it other places, such as with Specialties, or buying a 2x Damage Advantage for Close Combat, etc.

But one of the things that makes this action tough is the Speed or Strength bonus. But you have removed that, YOU MONSTER!! *Goes to get the angry Peasent Mob with torches and pitchforks*

Mwahahahaha...

[sphynx]

Actually I think this is the best of the slam of revised/new stuff. I've always disliked Unstoppable as a movement action because it leads to other problems such as blasting. Ie: speed.

It's arguable that Juggernaut should be able to travel faster than the speed of sound, based on how Blasting is said to work. This should replace both Blasting and Unstoppable. Now you have to spend stones on speed (Flight in the case of Blasting). Cannonball could now have a more believable flight speed of 2 or 3, and then a 'force field' that has the disadvantage of 'linked to' flight, and things suddenly make more sense.

I think unstoppable should have been a modifier.

Now if someone would convert Energy Absorption/Redirection into a Modifier called Improved Defense, Energy (store stopped energy) and link ForceBlast to it, we could save even more problems.

Sphynx

[piratespice]

sphynx said:

Actually I think this is the best of the slam of revised/new stuff. I've always disliked Unstoppable as a movement action because it leads to other problems such as blasting. Ie: speed.

Amen.

I'm glad you like this one. I do, too...at least in theory. I like the idea of making Unstoppable a Modifier. I'm just not satisfied with how its working at the moment. It just needs tweaking to make it operate more smoothly.

It's arguable that Juggernaut should be able to travel faster than the speed of sound, based on how Blasting is said to work. This should replace both Blasting and Unstoppable. Now you have to spend stones on speed (Flight in the case of Blasting). Cannonball could now have a more believable flight speed of 2 or 3, and then a 'force field' that has the disadvantage of 'linked to' flight, and things suddenly make more sense.

Agreed. Blasting was totally unnecessary as its own Action (and waaaay too cheap for what it does).

I think unstoppable should have been a modifier.

Me too!

Now if someone would convert Energy Absorption/Redirection into a Modifier called Improved Defense, Energy (store stopped energy) and link ForceBlast to it, we could save even more problems.

Interesting. While I agree that Energy A/R is a little funky in how it works, I'm not sure I'd agree that it should be a Modifier. Mind you, I've never had a use for the "redirection" part of it (I'm not keen on making a Bishop clone). But I've always found the way the Absorption works, and using the Action Box to store absorbed stones, to be rather elegant. But I'm always open to ways to take a hammer to any game system. How about you send me a PM with some of your thoughts on the matter, and maybe we can mold something out of it?

[sphynx]

Energy A/R: The thing is, it IS a modifier. You don't put stones into it to absorb, that means it's a modifier. The only reason it's treated as an Action is because you can put stones in it for redirection. Makes more sense to seperate the Modifier from the Action, and since there's already an Action (Force Blast) that could be used, that'd make it purely a Modifier similar to Energy Defense, just better.

[piratespice]

I'm gonna paste this Energy A/R conversation into a new thread, as its quite a tangent from this thread.

[piratespice]

Okay, back on topic. Here's my current version of the Unstoppable Modifier. No more 2x damage. Greatly simplified. My main concern now is an appropriate Cost Level. Its not as powerful as it used to be, so I'm thinking CL+1 or CL+2.

The “Irresistible Force.” This power gives the character to ability to crash though anything up to their Modifier Number on the D&R Hardness row and keep on moving. Plus, you gain free stones equal to your Modifier Number (or to your opponent’s Resistance) to resist any physical efforts to halt your movement, such as grappling attempts, Entanglement, a telekinetic grab, etc.

[Neros]

to resist any physical efforts to halt your movement, such as grappling attempts, Entanglement, a telekinetic grab, etc.

Aaaaah... Thats one way to do it.... And i like it allot more than getting MN#/AN# in and attack just by moving.

2Xdamage gone, that i dont mind, BUT i think it should have a bonus from Strength or Speed like it orinigal had. It gave it a relation to WHERE this Modifier comes from.
But offcourse, how to have a Ability bonus for a Modifier... Hmmmm???

Mabye make it MN#+Spe/Str... This however would make it WAY to powerfull.... So might as well make it a +1 action...

[piratespice]

neros said:

2Xdamage gone, that i dont mind, BUT i think it should have a bonus from Strength or Speed like it orinigal had. It gave it a relation to WHERE this Modifier comes from.
But offcourse, how to have a Ability bonus for a Modifier... Hmmmm???

Mabye make it MN#+Spe/Str... This however would make it WAY to powerfull.... So might as well make it a +1 action...

Why? Including something like this would just complicate it again, and the whole goal here was to simplify the power. It doesn't need to get a bonus from Strength or Speed. It is a bonus to Strength or Speed, if either of those Abilities are used to resist grappling/entanglement/etc.

I'm not too concerned with paying homage to the original Action, since I consider that Action broken.

[Neros]

This however would make it WAY to powerfull.... So might as well make it a +1 action

What i meant to say there was: It sounded fine as it was. Great rule man, this is so much gona be in with my future games.
Offcourse i accidently said "make it a +1 action", and what i meant was a +1 modifier.

But then again, it sais the ones in the way are "attacked" by the modifie number and gives 2x damage, which would make it a +3.
==================================

But then comes the question to Blasing, which more or less worked in the same maner, but still not.
I think it works fine as a action, but i would set its cost up to +4 instead of that measly +2.
ITS 2xDAMAGE AND FORCESHIELD!! 2xDamage is... dont have books.... +2, and a forceshield is also a +2, so that would atleast put it upto +4.

2xDamage: +2
Forceshield: +5/+2 (others benifit +3)
Flight: +1 (cant pickup others -1)
Burst THROUGH objects:+1
Easly noticed: -1 (not really sure if its worth -1)
TOTAL: +8

So it should actully cost more after my tast.