Separate Energy and Health from Durability

[Scriptus]

I also like it.

[thunderball]

I think this is a really good idea.

I tried it when I made characters for a new group and it worked very well.

Thumbs up!

[Kaimontfendo]

The idea looks somewhat solid, but I must admit, I'm more than just a little hesitant to make such a major change to a system like this.

Also, couldn't someone buy 10 health for 15 white, and 12 energy for 4 white, and therefore be almost impossible to take down? Perhaps adding a loop-hole closing "must buy energy reserve at least triple your health" would be a good idea.

Other than that, does anyone care to take the time to fix the broken characters who have been mentioned? (Cyclops, Electra, & Quicksilver)

[Neros]

Lets say some one buys 10... Why does he have 10 health? But for energy, the cost for could be increased.

[techogre]

To expand this system, here is my modest proposal:

Durability
Cost = Level
Used to determine healing rates, resistence to poison, stamina, etc.

Health
Cost = Level
Each level gives one Hit. Hits are also used to determin Energy regeneration rate.

Energy
Cost = Level
Each level gives 3 Energy.

This allows you to keep the rules and costs as is, but adds flexability.

[Scriptus]

kaimontfendo said:

The idea looks somewhat solid, but I must admit, I'm more than just a little hesitant to make such a major change to a system like this.

Also, couldn't someone buy 10 health for 15 white, and 12 energy for 4 white, and therefore be almost impossible to take down? Perhaps adding a loop-hole closing "must buy energy reserve at least triple your health" would be a good idea.

Other than that, does anyone care to take the time to fix the broken characters who have been mentioned? (Cyclops, Electra, & Quicksilver)

I had thought about that possibility when I made the system. I think that way to build a character is just as viable as any other.

The reason that I say that is because the character that you are suggesting would cost 19 stones total and only have a maximum energy reserve of 12. Under the current murpg system a person could buy a durability of 7 with an energy reserve of 21 for the cost of 18 stones. I think those two characters are fairly comparable. Both really hard to take down. One just has a higher energy regen and the other has more energy off the bat.

I don't even want to think about taking on a character with a health of 7 or 10 for that matter.

[Brainstem]

So techogre... I like where you're going with this, but I would like one clarification...

When you say hits, is that HP? That's how I'm taking it as meaning. I'm not sure about the minimum level being equal to the character's durability, though. You could find a hero that cannot take a beating at all, but that doesn't mean he or she has a poor health. Although I see what you're going for with the Durability being the minimum health in terms of game balance, but in terms of creating some types of characters and storytelling it lacks a bit.

Just an example... since I may have rambled and not made much sense as I find myself highly capable of doing... say a player wants to create a character the is physically very frail, but has a superhuman immune system as part of their power. Some players just have a flair for irony like that, ya know?

But still, I really like this system. I may be starting a game up with some friends and I'm definately going to try implementing this.

~Steve~

[techogre]

First, the clerification: Yes, Hits = Heath = Hit Points

This is a great idea. If it works for a character idea, why not. I will edit my original post to reflect this. The game balance is maintained. If you choose to get a high health/low DUR character, it will cost less, but you will be gimped when attacked by anything affecting DUR directly.

[spidergod313]

I like this rule as well, and modified the excel Quick calc chart(originally made by someone else on the board) to allow this option. However, I put limits on the other abilities.

To use the original model outlined in the very first post you can not have a Dur > 3, or an Int > 6. Some exceptions could be made if their Character Bio's are so outstanding that it makes sense to have those higher abilities.

This gives my players three unique ways to create PC's, but still keeps them balanced. In theory this seems to be working.

[bawonsamdi]

Last week, during vacations, i was working on some house rules for my next murpg campaign and i made a system separating durability and energy.
And when i'm back on the board, i found that somebody already did this !

Anyway, my own system is a bit different from sciptus' one so i post it here so you can compare.
Here we are:

abilities
INTELLIGENCE (INT)
STRENGTH (STR)
AGILITY (AGI)
SPEED (SPD)

Stones
HEALTH (HTH)
ENERGY (ENER)

Ability and HTH Cost = basic rate
ENER cost double the basic rate
ENER Number can't be higher than the highest ability (INT, AGI, SPD or STR)

Health stones = HTH Number

ENER is used to determine the size of your Energy Reserve and your Energy Recovery
Energy Reserve = ENER Number x3
Energy Recovery = ENER Number

Separating health and energy has consequences regarding various modifiers. Some are modified, others are created.

Modifiers[/b]

Healing Factor:
Cost Level = HTH Number
Heal 1 white stone per hour

Accelerated Healing Factor:
Cost Level = HTH Number +2
Heal 1 white stone per 2 panels

Enhanced Healing Factor:
Cost Level = HTH Number +3
Heal 1 white stone per panel

Instant Healing Factor:
Cost Level = HTH Number +5
Heal all white stones each panel

Expanded Reserve:
Cost Level = Energy Number +2
Energy Reserve = ENER x4

Accelerated Recovery:
Cost Level = Energy Number +2
Energy Recovery = ENER x1.5 rounded down

Faster Recovery:
Cost Level = Energy Number +4
Energy Recovery = ENER x2

So now, you can make a descent speedster who is not also a tough guy but still with enough energy to fuel his main power.
Special rules for INT based character are not needed anymore.

This system doen't decrease energy recovery rate when the character is wounded which is fine for me. Combat between wounded opponents are boring and make modifiers even more important than they already are.

[vicsage]

neros said:

A great exampel for this is Elektra... Ninja Action of 7, Agility of 3, Total = 10... But she only has 9 energy to use... So even though she got better at Ninja, she couldent use it.

I think the system is fine as it is. Iron Man can outlast Spider-Man if he conserves his energy. He uses frickin' electricity rather than his own body. And as far as Elektra goes, she's already ridiculously skilled and there are plenty of characters who have higher potential Actions after modifiers and bonuses, and she could use hers if she got a dose of energy from elsewhere, which there are rules for. There are already far too many high-end characters as it is. Extra energy and health just encourages poor playing since, "Heck, I've got health to burn, I'll attack those ninjas all by myself."

[powerfull]

The following rule I have created, was heavily influenced by this thread and is primarily intended to be used with MTR (Marvel Total Realism, check thread). However you can use it as a seperate rule if you like (although this is not advisable).

New revamped rule for energy and health for MTR. Some modifications have to be made. Under the new MTR rule, there is no such thing as intellect based energy. The new rule makes it obsolite. Healing factor also no longer affects recovery of red stones and is -2 value at all levels.

New abilities : ENERGY, and RECOVERY
New concepts: Power reserve, power recovery.

Durability no longer costs 3x. Durability no longer has anything to do with energy or recovery. It's otherwise remains the same.
ENERGY: Costs as a normal ability. ENERGY represents only the maximun number of stones you can hold in each pannel, and does not affect your recovery. For each stone of ENERGY(ability) that you purchase or gain, you allocate either 3 stones of energy to your energy reserve, or 4 stones to your power reserve (explained later).

RECOVERY : Costs as a normal ability. For each stone of RECOVERY (ability) that you purchase or gain, you alocate it either as an energy recovery stone, or a power recovery stone. can choose to either recover a point of energy to your energy reserve each panel, or recover 4 points in 3 pannels (one at pannels 1-2 and two at pannel 3) in your power reserve.

The Power reserve : The power reserve has red stones that can only be used for powers. It can represent many things, such as mental or mystical strength not directly related to one's body, access to cosmic or extraplanar reserves, etc.

ENERGY can be purchased at 0, for 0 stones. You recover stones as usual, but these only last until the end of the round. Useful to describe constracts or automatons that don't tire, but don't build up either. A robot could have energy 0 and recovery 3, meaning that it gets 3 red stones per round. It could perform 3 stone feats all day, but never more than that.

Cad example:

Proffesor Gavier (a very distant cousin of professor Xavier )has a durability of 2 (2 red stones to buy), ENERGY of 5 (3 white stones to buy), with 3 stones allocated to power reserve and 2 stones allocated to his energy reserve, and RECOVERY 4 (2 white stones to buy) with 2 stones allocated to power reserve and 2 to energy reserve). His cad would look something like this :
Durability : 2
ENERGY : 2/3p
RECOVERY : 2/2p

Health : 2
Reserve: 6/12p (meaning 6 energy and 12 power reserve)

Professor Gavier recovers 2 points to his energy reserve per pannel, and 8 points in 3 pannels (2 points at pannel 1 and 3 points at pannel 2 and 3) in his power reserve.

He can use his energy reserve to do whatever he wants. But he can use the Power reserve only to power his telepathy (on any other special power that he has purchased).

[Scriptus]

powerfull said:

The following rule I have created, was heavily influenced by this thread and is primarily intended to be used with MTR (Marvel Total Realism, check thread). However you can use it as a seperate rule if you like (although this is probably not advisable).

New revamped rule for energy and health for MTR. Some modifications have to be made. Under the new MTR rule, there is no such thing as intellect based energy. The new rule makes it obsolite. Healing factor also no longer affects recovery of red stones and is -2 value at all levels.

New statistics : Energy, and recovery
New cad aditions, Power reserve, power recovery.

Durability no longer costs 3x. Durability no longer has anything to do with energy or recovery. It's otherwise remains the same.
Energy: Costs as a normal ability. For each point of energy (ability) that you purchase or gain, you can choose to either add 3 points to your energy reserve, or add 4 points to your power reserve.
Recovery : Costs as a normal ability. For each point of recovery (ability) that you purchase or gain, you can choose to either recover a point of energy to your energy reserve each panel, or recover 4 points in 3 pannels (one at pannels 1-2 and two at pannel 3) in your power reserve.

The Power reserve : The power reserve has red stones that can only be used for powers. It can represent many things, such as mental or mystical strength, access to cosmic or extraplanar reserves, etc.

Energy can be purchased at 0, for 0 stones. You recover stones as usual, but these only last until the end of the round. Useful to describe constracts or automatons that don't tire, but don't build up either. A robot could have energy 0 and recovery 3, meaning that it gets 3 red stones per round. It could perform 3 stone feats all day, but never more.

Cad example:

Proffesor Gavier has a durability of 2 (2 red stones), energy of 5, with 3 points allocated to power reserve) and recovery 4 with 2 points allocated to power reserve). His cad would look something like this :
Durability : 2
Energy : 3/2p
Recovery : 2/2p

Health : 2
Energy: 6/12p (meaning 6 energy and 12 power reserve)

Professor Gavier recovers 2 points to his energy reserve per pannel, and 8 points in 3 pannels (2 points at pannel 1 and 3 points at pannel 2 and 3).

He can use his energy reserve to do whatever he wants. But he can use the Power reserve only to power his telepathy.

i'm having some trouble understanding this rule. Powerfull could you take a little bit more time to explain it? if we are going for realism then the idea that some characters have different amounts of energy to allocate to their bodies and their powers it right on the money. i'm just having some trouble understanding the game mechanics. i really had trouble understanding the 'Gavier' character's CAD.

this is a good idea. i just wondered if you could polish the wording a little to help folks like me.

[powerfull]

Well, this comes as no surprise since I wrote it in 3am in the morning andactually made a typo in it. His energy is 2/3p, not 3/2p. I modified my post to have the correct value in it and also try to make it more understandable. I will also try to give a more in depth analysis here. Professor Gavier (A very distant cousin of professor xavier ) has purchased a durability of 2. Durability costs the same as str, agility, speed, etc under this rule (Just cost +0, no longer x3), so he buys it for 2 red stones. He then chooses to buy ENERGY 5 (one of the new abilities). ENERGY costs the same as all other abilities (cost +0) so he pays 3 white stones for it. He chooses to allocate 2 stones of it in his energy reserve which functions in the same way we knew until now (he can't allocate them during game, unless for some reason such as genetic engineering his ENERGY ability changes again), giving him an energy reserve of 6 to be used for any type of action as normal, and 3 stones to his power reserve, giving him a power reserve of 12 which functions just like energy reserve but can only be used to power well...powers (my english just gets better and better)! So his cad has writen in it energy : 2/3p, meaning a total energy of 5, 2 of which physical (professor Gavier has about the same stamina and toughness), and 3 of which in powers. His energy reserve is 6/12p, meaning that he has up to 6 stones to spend on ANY action, and up to 12 stones to spend to powers such as telepathy, telekinesis, mastery, etc.

Now, Professor Gavier has also bought a RECOVERY of 4 (costs just the same as all other abilities, cost +0, so he buys it for 2 white stones), 2 of which are allocated in his energy reserve, giving him the ability to recover 2 stones per pannel, and 2 of which are allocated to his power reserve, giving him the ability to recover 8 stones every 3 pannels (the most appropriate way to reflect that is to let him recover 2 stones at pannel 1, and 3 stones at pannels 2 and 3). In his cad, this is writen like this, Recovery : 2/2p, (a total recovery ability of 4). We can see that professor Gavier has a lot of energy, but he needs just a bit more time then usual to recover it.

[Andrew]

I think this is a good idea, I just have a couple of questions about it:

1. How would being injured affect the different Energy and Power pools and recovery rates?

2. For an action like Drain Energy or Energy Absorption/Reflection: which pool would the absorbed stones go to?

3. Would things like Healing Factors, or the Mastery 'Regenerate +1 Stone in your element' option, have any effect whatsoever?

4. Could the Power reserve be used for physical powers like Tentacle Whip or Web-Slinging, or is it just for psychic/energy-type actions?