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Post by Scriptus on Jan 30, 2006 19:52:01 GMT -5
I have long been troubled by certain characters in the marvel system like Tony Stark who has an energy regen of 7 and a max energy of 14. This makes his able to out last characters like Spiderman in terms of raw energy output. The system also lacks the ability to create characters with high energy, low durabilities, and less that genius level intelligence, like Cyclops. To improve on the situation (but not totally correct it) I propose the following.
Separate energy reserves from the character's durability. The players will buy the energy reserve separately from health. Health will now cost the same as all of the other stats. For example: Health of 1 will cost 1 red stone. Health of 2 will cost 2 red stones. Health of 3 will cost 1 white stone. Health of 4 will cost 2 white stones. Health of 5 will cost 3 white stones. Health of 6 will cost 4 white stones. Health of 7 will cost 6 white stones. Health of 8 will cost 9 white stones. Health of 9 will cost 12 white stones. Health of 10 will cost 15 white stones.
Energy will be purchased at 2x normal cost for 3 red stone of energy. For example: 3 red stones will cost 2 red stones (AN: 1) 6 red stones will cost 4 red stones (AN: 2) 9 red stones will cost 6 red stones or 2 white stones(AN: 3) 12 red stones will cost 4 white stones (AN: 4) 15 red stones will cost 6 white stones (AN: 5) 18 red stones will cost 8 white stones (AN: 6) 21 red stones will cost 12 white stones (AN: 7) 24 red stones will cost 18 white stones (AN: 8) 27 red stones will cost 24 white stones (AN: 9) 30 red stones will cost 30 white stones (AN: 10)
(Note a character with a health of 10 and an energy reserve of 30 still cost 45 white stones (the same as a character with a durability of 10). You will notice that this should be the same all the way up the list. The new character will regenerate 1 red stone of energy for every white stone of health they have. This will reflect the fact that a character like Tony Stark will not regenerate energy as fast as Spiderman.
This system allows you to let Cyclops have and energy reserve of 15 for the cost of 6 white stones and a health of 3 for 1 white stone. It also allows him to let go 2 full strength blasts in a row before tiring out. (Now he can only do one in a row and then do a crappy 3 stone blast the next panel.) This method also allows for the creation of characters like Batman and Quicksilver with out resorting to making their energy intelligence based or giving them overly high durabilities.
A player can still make his character have intelligence based energy if they want. They would just pay 3x for health like we do now for durability and pay 2x for their intelligence to regenerate their energy and for their energy reserve. What do you guys think?
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Post by dorkknight23 on Jan 30, 2006 22:03:11 GMT -5
I like it. It's straightforward, and doesn't overly complicate the system while still making up for that deficiency (which I guess, depending on which angle you take it from, is best described as "Cyclops Syndrome" or "Quicksilver Syndrome.")
I have two quick questions:
1) How does this apply to Intelligence-based characters? If they pay double do they get to base it off their intelligence score instead of their current health? Isn't that still problematic?
2) And this doesn't change healing factor at all, right? Still 3 red/2 white for health (or 2/1 in the case of Instant Healing Factors)?
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Post by Neros on Jan 31, 2006 0:51:13 GMT -5
A great exampel for this is Elektra... Ninja Action of 7, Agility of 3, Total = 10... But she only has 9 energy to use... So even though she got better at Ninja, she couldent use it.
But besides that... It sounds good... Something like it was done awhile back i belive... But this sounds fine...
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Post by Scriptus on Jan 31, 2006 14:45:04 GMT -5
DK23, in answer to your questions I would say that intelligence based energy is something that I would really like to save for people like Xaiver or Dr. Strange. Their sources of power are mainly not from their bodies and their regeneration level doesn't have any practical connection to their bodies. I'm okay with that type of intelligence based energy (as long as Xaiver doesn't get an intelligence bonus to his close combat ) Healing factors would stay basically the same. Neros, yeah there was a big thread about this a long time ago (which is when i originally thought of this) but the idea was much messier and harder to find in the midst of the angry verbal one ups-manship. I looked for the thread but couldn't find it so I decided to repost my idea in a much cleaner form. Thanks for the input guys.
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Post by piratespice on Feb 1, 2006 1:51:28 GMT -5
Neros, yeah there was a big thread about this a long time ago (which is when i originally thought of this) but the idea was much messier and harder to find in the midst of the angry verbal one ups-manship. I looked for the thread but couldn't find it so I decided to repost my idea in a much cleaner form. Yeah, I think the thread you're talking about is a discussion I started. The angry one-upmanship was largely due to the fact that I specifically asked people not to leave "the system is fine as it is" posts, as I was trying to discuss new possibilities...and naturally certain people couldn't resist and completely ignored me. I thinking my biggest mistake was posting it in general discussion, rather than Homebrew, where people expect to find more radical ideas. Oy vey. (Incidentally, I can't find the old thread either. Either it was deleted, or the forum ate it.) That said, I like what you've done here. Very clean and straightforward. I'm trying to remember what some of the difficult issues were that came up when I posted my ideas, but I just got off of work and my brain hurts. So I'll have to get back to you on whether they still apply to your approach. I recall the big one (which spawned a lot of debate) was that I wanted to get rid of Durability. So let me ask, what purpose does Durability now serve with your system? Is it merely another term for Health now? I realize that one can conceivably use Durability as an Ability Bonus (but its rare), and attacks against Durability can easily be ported to attacks against Strength, instead. Basically, I wanted to drop Durability because, once you're paying for Health and Energy seperately, its usefulness compared to other Abilities plummets. Thoughts?
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Post by Neros on Feb 1, 2006 11:03:34 GMT -5
Hehe... Yea, the system works fine as it is.... Its a great system, really, but its fare from flawless, as many of us allready have agreed on. But as mentioned, when Health and Energy is split up, durability loses some of its usefullness. Could be used to resist poison.....
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Post by piratespice on Feb 1, 2006 13:13:50 GMT -5
Actually, I'd say it loses most of its usefulness. It could be used simply to determine Health, but then its not much of an Ability anymore (not that it was much like the other Abilities in the first place). As I recall, that was my biggest reason for wanting to get rid of it. It never did synch up with how the other Abilities work.
All in all, I suppose dropping Durability is a seperate issue from what Scriptus has presented (especially since he clearly designed this optional rule to be able to work alongside the original rules). Though I do think it compliments this kind of system well.
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Post by Scriptus on Feb 1, 2006 14:59:38 GMT -5
In this system I would say that a hero's maximum Health could be a substitute for Durability. Yeah Pirate I would say we should get rid of Durability and just buy health and energy separate.
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Post by Neros on Feb 1, 2006 15:48:19 GMT -5
hmm... Sounds interesting... But paying for durability to be able to bye health is seems wrong since originally there arent a limit to health (except your origin/Race...)
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Post by Scriptus on Feb 2, 2006 0:00:46 GMT -5
hmm... Sounds interesting... But paying for durability to be able to bye health is seems wrong since originally there arent a limit to health (except your origin/Race...) I'm not sure that I'm understanding you Neros. Under this house rule you wouldn't have to buy durability at all. Only health and energy. For the purpose of an attack vs. durability in the current system I would simply substitute the characters maximium health for durability. For example if villian A has a gas attack of 6 vs durability in the current system. That same villian A would have a gas attack of 6 vs the characters maximium health #. Did I address what you were talking about or only confuse the issue? Or were you writing to Pirate Spice?
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Post by Neros on Feb 2, 2006 0:34:26 GMT -5
I was writing to you, and you did confuse it abit. Im saying in the original rules, theres no limit to your health, besides stones and the reason you have such high/low health. So adding a limiter with durability seems intereting in a way, but it wouldent be following the "flow" of the original game then. Im not trying to save durability, because it does get useless when health and energy is bought separetly.
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Post by piratespice on Feb 2, 2006 0:35:03 GMT -5
Scriptus, if you're going to do it that way, I wouldn't get rid of Durability. That'll just confuse the issue. If you're still using Max Health as a stat that can be attacked like an Ability, you might as well just keep Durability and use it to determine maximum Health. Basically, all you're doing is renaming Durability to "Maximum Health." Its the same thing, just less confusing when compared to the original rules.
My suggestion for getting rid of Durability would require attacks vs. Durability to be diverted to another actual Ability, such as Strength. But if you want this system to be playable next a character made with the original system, then I wouldn't get rid of Durability. It'll just muddle things up.
In short, you might want to alter the language of the original post. Rather than saying that you're buying Health at the cost of a normal Ability, just say that Durability now costs the same as a normal Ability, and determines only Health, but not Energy.
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Post by Neros on Feb 7, 2006 2:41:20 GMT -5
So health isent bought by itself with your suggestion, but is bought along with durability. Buy 3 Durability, get 3 Health.
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Post by piratespice on Feb 8, 2006 2:15:08 GMT -5
So health isent bought by itself with your suggestion, but is bought along with durability. Buy 3 Durability, get 3 Health. Correct (at least according to my suggestion). Plus, Durability can still be targeted by "Attack vs. Durability."
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Post by Neros on Feb 8, 2006 16:01:54 GMT -5
Sounds fine with me.... Know to get this rule out to the rest of the board, MUAHAHAHAHA!!!..... or just keep it to ourself's.....
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