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Post by Presto on Nov 2, 2008 18:35:54 GMT -5
... That... could be a good point. o.o
-goes to check Wiki-
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Post by WildKnight on Nov 2, 2008 18:57:42 GMT -5
Erm guys looking at the message super bro posted it seems more like the second death was attributable to a vigilante than a serial killer.. Serial killers don't leave cards with guilty on them.... and vigilanties seem to be part of the game according to the wiki :< If SuperBro said it would be acceptable for Chuck to lie and claim that roles exist that don't, doesn't it follow that the serial killers would want to try to throw off suspicion after Chuck exposed them by pretending that he made it all up and posing their killing as a vigilante act?? I hardly believe I even have to point this out. |
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Post by Presto on Nov 2, 2008 19:02:56 GMT -5
Why does Cern have to be telling the truth? I actually am suprised I didn't consider Vigilante to be a role in the game... It's entirely possible the alternate killer is the Vigilante, based on the post. And like I stated earlier, in most instances if an individual is going to eliminate someone, their not going to state specifics... So we have to really evaluate what SuperBro posted to figure out the facts here.
In this case, it heavily points in favor of a Vigilante... which if thats true, then its an individual working in FAVOR of the townies, and opposition to the Mafiaso. Definately a comfort for me atleast.
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Post by WildKnight on Nov 2, 2008 19:07:55 GMT -5
*groans* Any of you guys ever see Twelve Angry Men? Great play. Anyway... Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to let you guys decide, and I'll vote with the majority (obviously unless I'm the lynching target... ). Tomorrow if 3 more people are dead, maybe you'll start to understand the math a little better, and if not, I'll have been worrying for nothing. For the record, though... if you think about it, a vigilante DOES NOT help the townies odds unless he actually has some method of specifically targeting mafia. Otherwise he's just killing based on his uninformed whims... and that makes him a wild card, not an advantage to either side. Mathematically, a vigilante is more dangerous to the townies than the mafia until there are more mafia than there are townies  |
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Post by Presto on Nov 2, 2008 19:10:51 GMT -5
You make a good point WK... but atleast its a step better than a Serial Killer. An SK wants to kill everyone period... Atleast a vigilante would TRY to target mafiaso.
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Post by WildKnight on Nov 2, 2008 19:18:56 GMT -5
Except for the mafia, who one would hope are in the minority, we're all trying to kill mafia. The difference is, we have to follow a paradigm to do it. In effect, we form a "trial"... we argue points and in the end, a consensus opinion is required for anyone to be lynched. That means that there may be nobody lynched, and at worst it means that whoever is lynched was lynched because a majority of their peers detected some threat in them.
The vigilante acts alone, and is a danger to anyone against whom he has a grudge, or against whom he just happens to feel might be mafia. He has no need to plead his case, no need to listen to the arguments of others. In short, there is nobody to point out errors in his judgment. That may as well be the same as randomly selecting targets by rolling dice, IMO. Until/unless the mafia outnumber the townies, a vigilante is just as dangerous as the mafia.
Which is not to say we should go out of our way to target the vigilante... if there is one we have NO way of guessing who he was anyway. All I'm saying is that not targeting a potential serial killer because he might be a vigilante instead of a serial killer makes no sense, either.
Still, at this point... anybody who has any honest idea who the mafia are at this point is a better man than I. The top two of my suspect list are dead already.
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Post by Presto on Nov 2, 2008 19:36:24 GMT -5
True... I wish I were the vigilante if it actually is a vigilante. Atleast I know i'd be more careful in who I targeted. I see your point though, the individual with that role is very dangerous.... Heh, kinda makes you see why J. Jonah Jameson hates superheroes.
I don't hav any other suspects right now... I have too much homework to focus on for tommorow. But once thats turned in and I get some time, i'm gonna look over Day 1.
I strongly believe Cern was Mafia. If he was, then Thue was the targeted Mafia hit because he was trying to get Cern lynched... Why not Lynch me? I'v made myself a big enough target as is, which would almost guarantee it would be easier to get me lynched the next day. me and Thue were the two big ones.
If he was, I need to review and see who defended him... or who might have, for some reason, tried to turn the attention away from him to protect him.
Like I said, I dont have enough time to do that tonite.. probably not tommorow either. So i'll have to dedicate as much time as I can Monday evening and Tuesday, to see if I can find anyone else.... Maybe others could to and give me suspects to consider when im reading?
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Post by WildKnight on Nov 2, 2008 19:42:15 GMT -5
I did a fair bit of arguing against lynching Chuck, and I still stand by my reasoning for that... Chuck was smart and if he wasn't mafia, losing him is a blow to us all. His gambit didn't just sew doubt amongst us... it also threw confusion into the ranks of the mafia (which I believe he was convinced included Presto and Thuellai).
As far as Chuck being mafia... it may be, but the odds are much more likely that he was either a serial killer just like he claimed, or a townie that got desperate not to be the guy that got lynched.
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Post by Presto on Nov 2, 2008 19:48:07 GMT -5
Perhaps, but in my opinion he made the game more nerve-racking than it had to be... Granted, it may have made the game funner. But when it appeared he was willing to alter his votes to disrupt the voting process, then it became a reason to consider him.... Though granted I did later feel he had some reason behind his vote change, I just felt there should have been a better way to handle it (Hence why I even laid off him for last night).
I consider you as a possibility WK... but then again, I consider everyone. I'm only suspicious of you because I know your clever enough to pull it off... I trust you, so I know I can't trust you.
But i'm not going to vote yet... I'm going to wait to see if I can't get a good lead first. If nothing else, I may wait to see if Mr. Sinister gets more active, if not I may suggest going the same way we did with Goats and see how everyone else feels too.
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Post by WildKnight on Nov 2, 2008 20:01:00 GMT -5
I take that as a compliment more than anything. Unfortunately, being clever has nothing to do with who got into the mafia. It was random. Personally if I were mafia I wouldn't have killed Thu, or Chuck, or you (or Roc, but only because Roc was the only one to point the finger at me, and if he died, it would look REALLY bad). If I were mafia I would have killed somebody who didn't give any indication at all of why they were selected in the aftermath... theres always time for revenge killings later. If I were mafia, hero, mcfly, toast... one of them (or somebody equally innocuous) would be dead. Of course, there is the remote possibility that Chuck and I were the serial killers |
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Post by Presto on Nov 2, 2008 20:08:21 GMT -5
You're right that just being clever isn't enough... But if you WERE the random one chosen, then would you (or anyone for that matter) be clever enough to appear that you werent chosen?
and I understand your points all the same, same reasoning why I wouldnt have been one to kill Cern. Of course, getting rid of Thue would be the first step into getting rid of influential people willing to go out on a limb to seek out the Mafiaso, leaving others who would probably be too scared to speak for fear of implicating themselves, which would limit their abilities to coordinate... leaving the Mafia as the only ones able to act together as a group.
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Post by GhostKnight on Nov 3, 2008 0:20:52 GMT -5
So Cern is dead. Any way to know the role he was? I bet no but that is what we wanted: his death.
WK and Presto seem to think each other is mafia but what if one of you is a vigilante/serial killer or whatever it is called?
Both of you didn't like Cern and his disruptions but you both are disruptive as well.
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Post by WildKnight on Nov 3, 2008 6:32:11 GMT -5
You seem to be under the impression somehow that playing the game is "disruptive"...
The entire idea is to have a discussion and try to get a consensus on who should be lynched, in order to to potentially kill mafia. Neither I nor Presto has been "disruptive."
Hell, without us, there wouldn't BE a game at this point. Nobody else is talking.
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Post by Rinjo on Nov 3, 2008 6:33:27 GMT -5
I'm talking. I am just off today!
Weekends are impossible for me. And I took leave today. So kill me!
Wait... I take that back. Don't. Don't uh... you know... kill me.
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Post by WildKnight on Nov 3, 2008 6:43:17 GMT -5
I don't personally have the power to kill anybody (God knows I wish I did at this point...), I'm just pointing out the absurdity of calling Presto and I "disruptive" for actually discussing potential REASONS for who we think should be lynched, rather than having this entire game be nothing but a series of random votes while the mafia pick the townies apart one-by-one.
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