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Post by WildKnight on Jul 2, 2010 7:20:05 GMT -5
Uh, actually I would say that Avatar: The Last Air Bender didn't have any elements of Anime at all. Thats why I loved it.
Anime is shite.
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Post by OurLadyWar on Jul 2, 2010 9:45:17 GMT -5
Double Feature of "The Cat's Meow" and "The Impostors" last night. Anyone seen these? Cat's Meow is the Eddie Izzard Charlie Chaplin flick about the mysterious death aboard William Randolph Hearst's yacht back in 1924. Impostors is the Stanley Tucci film he wrote and directed after "Big Night". Both had awesome casts, design, script, etc. They're not amazing films, but definitely fun. Even theatrical. Totally recommend for anyone looking for just a fun pair of films
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Post by WildKnight on Jul 2, 2010 10:18:47 GMT -5
Somebody else did a movie about Hearst, that included the yacht thing but was more focused on his relationship with Orson Welles and how he tried to destroy Citizen Kane.
Based on that alone, I'd probably like to see Cat's Meow. The subject matter is interesting stuff. I'd probably prefer a more historical version though.
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Post by slimgoodbody on Jul 2, 2010 10:30:32 GMT -5
Re: disliking anime. Anime isn't a genre, it's a format. That's like saying "I don't like books" or "I don't like movies." You may not like certain shows or even entire genres within a format, but saying an entire format is utterly incapable of producing something of quality is a bit silly.
Regardless, I don't think Avatar was anime. Being an American-written show, it lacked the peculiar cultural or societal viewpoint one could say pervades many genres of anime.
edit: If you haven't seen it, I think those of you who don't particularly love anime may still really get into Cowboy Bebop. It is pretty atypical, and is in my opinion, just a damn fine story on its own merit.
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Post by OurLadyWar on Jul 2, 2010 11:00:35 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm totally with Slim, I would recommend Bebop as well. Also, Miyazaki films are up there. I sort of see him as a new Kurosawa - color coding his films, vistas, lots of action among background/extras - more than an anime guru, but I still think his films are a good example of that type of entertainment. I would say there were anime influences in Avatar, but not as much as, say, Teen Titans. That show was definitely calling back to Eastern influences But Avatar was relatively light in comparison when it came to anime nods. It was still very Western, but they were drawing on a lot of Eastern characteristics for the show.
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Post by WildKnight on Jul 2, 2010 11:02:29 GMT -5
Cowboy Bebop was outstanding, specifically BECAUSE it didn't do "the anime thing."
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 2, 2010 13:01:30 GMT -5
Avatar definitely had anime influences. A lot of the visual style and animation style was inspired by anime - anyone who claims otherwise simply isn't seeing it. But in my experience, the three elements of anime that bother the hell out of people were not present:
1. Static "manga"-style animation, where characters seldom move at all, key animations are recycled, and dramatic action sequences are repeated at least 3 times for no real reason. They also tend to repeat music, having one song for happy times, one song for "oh noez teh bad guy is being bad", one song for "oh noez teh fight has started" and then maybe a "yay, the good guys prevailed - but at what cost?" tune. Strangely, despite the in-show music being recycled a lot, they usually get new opening and ending themes every season - sometimes mid-season. (The new ones are almost always worse than the first ones.)
2. Heavily formulaic episodic writing. Watch any episode of Ruroni Kenshin: An old enemy from Kenshin's past will show up, his new family will be threatened, he will be reluctant to fight, but then show up at the last minute with some brilliant new technique thing and save the day. Secondary characters, especially female ones, will have done nothing but shout "Kenshin!" with great concern. Villain will redeem himself with his dying breath. Roll credits.
3. Derailment/headtrip endings. It's a pattern in Asian television in general that shows start out really funny, then start to grow serious, and then sometimes take a really morbind/disturbing turn right at the end. While technically the show is quality throughout, the funny opening tends to attract viewers who will only like the beginning and hate the ending, while simultaneously chasing off people who would love the ending, but dismiss the show as campy/silly/dumb.
Avatar avoided all of these, I am happy to report. It did have unnecessarily cute animals, though. But they really were cute.
In general, I agree that Anime exists as a medium, and I don't think many people really dislike the entire medium. But it also exists at the level of style, and some people just don't like the big-eyes-small-mouth look. I think mostly people complain about the cultural aspects that tend to be tied into Anime (being that, obviously, the vast majority of Anime comes out of one country). That is something I totally get, but it's inaccurate for those people to simply say "I hate anime."
I think "I tend not to enjoy Anime" is probably a more useful way to say it. It at least gives you a better chance of avoiding this kind of conversation. ^__^
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Jul 2, 2010 13:09:46 GMT -5
For about the 40,000'th time... this thing that the dislike of anime is "cultural" is nonsense. I love Japanese art, literature, and some movies. Anime does not represent Japanese culture on the whole; it represents a small portion. To say that Anime is reflective of Japanese culture is like saying that sitcoms are reflective of American culture. Its partially true, but it also misses the bigger picture.
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 2, 2010 13:14:01 GMT -5
I'm a little tired because I got 1 hour of sleep last night. Did I actually say somewhere in that post that Anime is representative of everything in Japanese culture? Or did I maybe say that Anime is affected, culturally, by the fact that it is mostly produced in a single country?
Cuz, I may be sleepy, but I'm still pretty sure I said the second one. Or at least I tried to.
~TWF
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Post by Jet on Jul 2, 2010 13:16:12 GMT -5
WK hates anime, he wont change his mind, lets leave it at that. Even I learned to not bother talking about it anymore.
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Post by WildKnight on Jul 2, 2010 13:22:23 GMT -5
I'm a little tired because I got 1 hour of sleep last night. Did I actually say somewhere in that post that Anime is representative of everything in Japanese culture? Or did I maybe say that Anime is affected, culturally, by the fact that it is mostly produced in a single country? ~TWF It sure seemed like you were saying that cultural differences were the reason some people dislike Anime. Of course its culturally affected by the fact that its mostly made in Japan.
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Post by WildKnight on Jul 2, 2010 13:23:12 GMT -5
WK hates anime, he wont change his mind, lets leave it at that. Even I learned to not bother talking about it anymore. Tell you what. You come up with a cogent argument why its NOT disgusting to constantly show underaged girls in tiny little skirts, and I'll stop ragging Anime.
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 2, 2010 13:25:15 GMT -5
Yes, cultural differences certainly play a factor. But you implied that I said that anime represents "Japanese culture on the whole", which is wrong.
Go easy on the black-and-white thinking, please. I'm tired of correcting you. Also I'm just tired. Seriously, 1 hour of sleep. I hate my neighbours.
~TWF
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Post by Jet on Jul 2, 2010 13:31:03 GMT -5
WK hates anime, he wont change his mind, lets leave it at that. Even I learned to not bother talking about it anymore. Tell you what. You come up with a cogent argument why its NOT disgusting to constantly show underaged girls in tiny little skirts, and I'll stop ragging Anime. 1. I watch a lot of anime, not everyone of them is like this. 2. Even if it is, I like them. Big. Deal. 3. I spent a lot of time trying to convince you that there are good titles, but you never listened, so I wont try anymore.
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Post by Brainstem on Jul 2, 2010 13:45:31 GMT -5
I think WK admitted to liking Bebop. His issue is with the common tropes in anime. Every season is very formulaic for nearly every show that I've seen. I was a huge fan of DBZ until around ninth grade, when I realized it was just ridiculous.
So you have Frieza, the biggest, baddest motherf*cker to grace the universe. Frieza decides to take over Earth (I don't really remember why), so Goku has to step in and stop him. During the course of the season, Goku meets up with Frieza's lackeys, whips them good (after getting somewhat whipped himself), and eventually has to take on Frieza himself. The fight goes on for ages (which I never actually minded) until Goku is finally able to do one of most incredible things ever. He goes Super Saiyan. If I remember correctly, the Super Saiyans were a thing of myth that had been considered, for all intents and purposes, nothing more than legend. Goku, however, fueled by his need to vanquish this evil, is able to become a legend. Frieza is defeated and everyone's happy, yay!
Cue next season. There are a bunch of Androids on the loose and some dude from the future is here! Wait, the guy from the future just one-shotted Frieza? Frieza the most powerful being that the universe has had to deal with? I mean, I understand he's half cyborg now, but DAMN. The season goes on with powers escalating to the ridiculous (I mean, not to be trite, but having a Power Level over 9,000 was supposed to mean something) and bad guys having to become more and more contrived in order to match this. And what's up with little Goten and Trunks being Super Saiyans at such a young age? Goku worked his ass off to become a living legend and all these kids have to do is be born? Bulllllll. Also, Cell and Buu were the exact same character, but displaced by a season (that's just a gripe with DBZ, though, and not anime as a whole).
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