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Post by WildKnight on Oct 29, 2011 19:38:28 GMT -5
In my opinion he ticks all of Dooms boxes and then some. Nope. Loki hasn't even come close to Doom in terms of successfully navigating the world of super-villainy. He can't even take over Asgard, much less the world. Besides, Loki has become less of a character and more of a story prop in recent years. His "powers" have become so variable as to be practically meaningless. Any power the writer wants him to have, he has. Any time the writer wants to limit him, out comes some lameass deus ex machina. Loki is the Joker of the Marvel U. He's a douchebag, but he's a minor league talent playing in the major leagues because of who his nemesis is.
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Post by Ushima911 on Oct 29, 2011 19:43:04 GMT -5
Magneto..just...yeah..
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Post by roxolid on Oct 29, 2011 19:43:03 GMT -5
I think both you and Rox are missing the boat on Green Goblin. The argument isn't that he ran Spider-Man and kicked his ass. So what? That Parker kid Forrest Gumps his way through everything he does anyway. Peter Parker at some point legitimately thought to himself... "yeah, sacrificing my marriage to MJ and our unborn child is worth bringing my 800 year old Aunt back to life. Again" Spider-Man makes a solid argument for "dumb smart guy" on a regular basis. The argument for Green Goblin is his more recent "work." Dude manipulated the entire country into thinking he was a good guy despite being a convict and a murderer, manipulated just about every hero there was, made mirror teams for every major hero group out of villains, and otherwise basically just ran the show. Besides, if I'm being Meta... he's responsible (albeit indirectly) for the death of Sentinel, who may be the worst character in Marvel comics history. Aha - but that's also the point. He's served his time, paid his dues, come up through the ranks! to go from battling with a teenager in red/blue pyjamas to someone who dupes a nation (he was 'Iron Patriot' I believe?) as you rightly point out... He is the ultimate Marvel bad guy because of that. He didn't start out big, he worked his way up through a long and varied history of success (he's had a few) and failure (a lot) to become a major league player. Despite all the failures, the mental breakdowns, the deaths and rebirths, he still retains his old enthusiasm for killing Spiderman. You gotta give the guy credit for not giving in when, y'know, he's locked up and wearing a nifty white jacket that ties at the back. Again. From the minors to the majors, whereas most other guys start off and stay at the same level all through their careers. He's a shining example to us all! Work hard enough and yes, you two can persuade the American people (nay, the world!) that they were wrong all along about you and that you are the greatest American Hero! Then giggle with those tiny pinprick dot in the eyes and mutter "Morons. You're all morons."
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 29, 2011 19:45:27 GMT -5
You only have to work your way up from the bottom if you start out at the bottom. Just sayin'
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 29, 2011 19:46:11 GMT -5
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Post by Ushima911 on Oct 29, 2011 19:47:57 GMT -5
he's a hater
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Post by roxolid on Oct 29, 2011 19:48:51 GMT -5
In my opinion he ticks all of Dooms boxes and then some. Nope. Loki hasn't even come close to Doom in terms of successfully navigating the world of super-villainy. He can't even take over Asgard, much less the world. Besides, Loki has become less of a character and more of a story prop in recent years. His "powers" have become so variable as to be practically meaningless. Any power the writer wants him to have, he has. Any time the writer wants to limit him, out comes some lameass deus ex machina. Loki is the Joker of the Marvel U. He's a douchebag, but he's a minor league talent playing in the major leagues because of who his nemesis is. We'll have to disagree on that one then - He's Thors' arch enemy, and Thor is about the biggest baddest thing in the way of heroes in the Marvel Universe. They had to kill him off so they wouldn't have to face the thorny question of World War Hulk vs Thor. Yeah Hulk mashed everyone, Black Bolt, Hercules, even Silver Surfer at some point I believe, but would he have beaten Thor? I say thee... NAY! Verily. Forsooth. Loki is major league by way of being Thors' nemesis. It's not just him on his own - its who he brings together (various bad guys) and the plots he forms. I'd have to dig up a few examples, but Wiki has a list as long as your arm... Loki
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Post by roxolid on Oct 29, 2011 19:59:45 GMT -5
I also see such 'luminaries' on the list as 'Mad Thinker', 'Wizard' and 'Jackal'. All small fry when you consider who might take their place:
Galactus? Mephisto? Kang the conquerer? Thanos?
Are we talking about the king of the little league marvel bad guys or the top dogs?
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 29, 2011 20:26:12 GMT -5
Arguably the most successful villain in all of Marvel... and yet a complete joke.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2011 23:09:03 GMT -5
It's hard to say who the biggest villain in marvel is. I know you said not to include Doom, but Doom's really great as a villain. Then you have Norman Osborne who's been around forever. Magneto is also great. Onslaught spun the world and caused a sh*tstorm that the entire marvel universe had to deal with. Thanos is awesome, and he can just about defeat anyone. I've seen him school just about every major comic character at one point or another. Hulk has played the villain role before. It took the Avengers to stop him the first time. In WWH it took just about the entire Marvelverse. Maestro Hulk will always be one of my favorite incarnations of The Hulk. He actually took over in his timeline. Ultron is another one of my favorites. Let us not forget about The Beyonder either. Apocalypse is another very interesting villain. He has the knowing that he can take over, but when things get rough he pretty much just backs off, and bides his time. Some times it seems like he defeats himself.
There are several great villains in the Marvelverse. Villains are hard to write for in my opinion, and we don't get to see some villains very often. I think my favorite villain list of recuring villians goes as fallows.
Dr. Doom- Magic, technology, his own country. The character is very complex. Norman Osborne- He did pretty much take over the world, and he's been around forever. Magneto- I'm an X-Men fan. He's defiantly the main antagonist in that series. You can see where he was trying to make the world a better place through his kind , but in a bad way. He seems to only make problems worse. Utron- For no particular reason other than I really like robot's.
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Post by Gryphynx on Oct 30, 2011 0:52:56 GMT -5
Thanos, annihilus, THEN doom.
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Post by Dhark on Oct 30, 2011 0:53:28 GMT -5
I lean towards Apocalypse personally...
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Post by WildKnight on Oct 30, 2011 6:24:54 GMT -5
I lean towards Apocalypse personally... Yeah, because of all the times he's been a major threat requiring more than just his enemy group to... Oh, wait...
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Post by UrbanBlue on Oct 30, 2011 19:01:10 GMT -5
Hadn't thought of annihilus.
But how much has he really pulled off? (I really don't know)
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Post by Gryphynx on Oct 31, 2011 7:22:57 GMT -5
Well, damn near took over the universe in the Annihilation series. BadAss enough that Death told Thanos he could learn a thing or two from him.
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