|
Post by Ushima911 on Jun 14, 2012 2:23:22 GMT -5
something related to this thread; While at work in the toy department, i overheard an argument held by kids who looked to be 7-9 years old. They were in the action figure area of the department, and both of them had one of the new toys we now have. It was an amazing spiderman figure (With webshooting abilities!) and a figure of Batman (of the batman brave and the bold series) Anyways, both kids were playing with these toys (While they were still packaged..) and arguing over who would win, Spiderman, or Batman? Both gave good reasoning for kids their age. "Spiderman is super strong and fast! He'd just web up batman and he loses!" "Nuh uh! Cuz batman has batarangs and he'll cut the web!" "Well spiderman will just punch batman's head off because batman doesn't have any powers!" "Batman will get a can of raid from his belt and spray spiderman and he'll die!" ...i...DIED laughing! So, in conclusion; Batman beats Spiderman..
|
|
|
Post by Silentking Alpha on Jun 14, 2012 9:46:12 GMT -5
Weird way to get to that conclusion, but I agree. Which makes me sad because Spidey is my favorite hero.
|
|
|
Post by roxolid on Jun 14, 2012 12:15:02 GMT -5
Bah. Batman would lose in a straight up 'fair fight' (run with any supers gaming system out there) but I concede that the writers would somehow contrive a victory for old pointy ears, and that's sad. It's sad because it takes a major 'event' (Bane, Hush etc) to beat Batman. I recall when Superman was rebooted and he was getting kicked from pillar to post, and I thought it was brilliant. Sadly, Byrns run came to an end and Superman turned boring again Kind of where Batman is at.
|
|
|
Post by Dullahan on Jun 14, 2012 12:15:48 GMT -5
Well, to be fair, Batman never has been one to fight fair.
Not saying your wrong, just sayin.
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on Jun 14, 2012 12:26:48 GMT -5
Well, to be fair, Batman never has been one to fight fair. Not saying your wrong, just sayin. The problem is not one of "fighting fair"... the problem is one of plot immunity. Batman is never WRITTEN clever. He's just said TO BE clever all of the time. There's a considerable difference.
|
|
|
Post by Brainstem on Jun 14, 2012 13:00:24 GMT -5
How would you propose it be handled differently?
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on Jun 14, 2012 13:54:52 GMT -5
How would you propose it be handled differently? 1) Batman fails occasionally. In the comics, even when Batman fails, it's a sign of what a super genius badass he is. Anybody remember the storyline where his plans for taking out the Justice League were used against the Justice League? Sure, Batman's paranoia caused the problem... but Batman was also the solution to the problem, and his plan was SO genius that it worked flawlessly even without Batman executing it.2) No more lazy writing. "Because he's Batman" should not be considered adequate reasoning for him to ALWAYS have the answer to everything, all of the time. Other characters should not have to be written as incredibly stupid or incompetent in order to show off Batman's intellect and skills. Batman stealing Green Lantern's ring? Absurd. Superman not using his heat vision to destroy Batman's utility belt since he knows full well the Bat has kryptonite in that thing? Absurd. 3) Highlight his weaknesses occasionally. Let him get his ass kicked. He's (supposedly) just a man... let him be, oh I don't know, JUST A MAN. When he faces super human opponents, he should get his ass kicked. In fact, he should be hospitalized for months if one of these guys so much as sneezes on him. 4) Go back to talking about how crazy he is. Batman DOES have one, albeit rarely exploited, major weakness... he's completely out of his flipping mind, and that 's the only context in which I've found him remotely interesting in the past decade and a half. 5) Have the Bat-family drop the Stepford Wives nonsense. More than just Jason Todd should have jumped ship by now. The guy is a complete douchenozzle. At one point they had written Dick Grayson as having basically realized that he didn't need Bruce Wayne's approval to be a complete person onto himself. What happened to that??? It's also time for Tim Drake to start making the same realization for himself as well.
|
|
|
Post by roxolid on Jun 14, 2012 14:42:32 GMT -5
How would you propose it be handled differently? 1) Batman fails occasionally. In the comics, even when Batman fails, it's a sign of what a super genius badass he is. Anybody remember the storyline where his plans for taking out the Justice League were used against the Justice League? Sure, Batman's paranoia caused the problem... but Batman was also the solution to the problem, and his plan was SO genius that it worked flawlessly even without Batman executing it.Is this the one where Maxwell Lord shot Blue Beetle? I'm amazed anyone could trust Batman after that colossal betrayal of trust, but it seemed to have been brushed under the carpet and forgotten a few months later.2) No more lazy writing. "Because he's Batman" should not be considered adequate reasoning for him to ALWAYS have the answer to everything, all of the time. Other characters should not have to be written as incredibly stupid or incompetent in order to show off Batman's intellect and skills. Batman stealing Green Lantern's ring? Absurd. Superman not using his heat vision to destroy Batman's utility belt since he knows full well the Bat has kryptonite in that thing? Absurd. Agreed. Simply pulling out his <insert whatever> from his belt because he expected <insert person> to do <whatever> really grinds against what I believe the character should be and represent. He should be the peak of human mental and physical attributes, a driven, lonely man on a quest to seek justice that is doomed to fail (he'll never rid the world of criminals, but won't give up trying). If he's able to defeat every villain or hero in the DC universe, how come Gotham isn't crime free?3) Highlight his weaknesses occasionally. Let him get his ass kicked. He's (supposedly) just a man... let him be, oh I don't know, JUST A MAN. When he faces super human opponents, he should get his ass kicked. In fact, he should be hospitalized for months if one of these guys so much as sneezes on him. I can relate more to a character with weakness and failings, hence my love for the Byrne Superman reboot which I keep rattling on about, even though it was 25 years or more ago. Also why I love the Captain Britain character from the Alan Moore days - he spent so much time on his ass or simply being knocked about I felt sorry for, empathised with, and cheered for him all the more when he did (sort of) triumph.4) Go back to talking about how crazy he is. Batman DOES have one, albeit rarely exploited, major weakness... he's completely out of his flipping mind, and that 's the only context in which I've found him remotely interesting in the past decade and a half. His quest for justice should be something he can never attain, and it forms the core of his character. A man who has everything on the one hand - money, women, free time, friends... and yet has nothing on the other save a faithful butler, a costume and a cave (with a big coin in. Or is that gone now?). And he prefers to spend his time hunting down the criminal scum of Gotham (though Batman Inc suggested he was going global... Thankfully that appeared to be dropped). So, yeah, he's a nut case.5) Have the Bat-family drop the Stepford Wives nonsense. More than just Jason Todd should have jumped ship by now. The guy is a complete douchenozzle. At one point they had written Dick Grayson as having basically realized that he didn't need Bruce Wayne's approval to be a complete person onto himself. What happened to that??? It's also time for Tim Drake to start making the same realization for himself as well. All that's needed is Bat-Mite and Ace the Bat-Hound. A happy family again, now that Barbara Gordon got her legs back. Oracle was too interesting a character, and besides, you can never have too many acrobatic females with large chests in tight fitting costumes who pose at unusual (at least outside of porn movies) angles these days. Hmmm. A disturbing trend has formed here, with me agreeing with a number of WKs points. With that in mind, I'll go to bed for my night shift, and by the time I get up will have figured out some way to disagree with everything WK said, and everything I wrote. It's a thing I do.
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on Jun 14, 2012 21:41:05 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Dionon on Jun 14, 2012 22:24:33 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Silentking Alpha on Jun 15, 2012 9:28:26 GMT -5
That was funny.
|
|
|
Post by Hypester on Jun 17, 2012 20:17:48 GMT -5
How would you propose it be handled differently? 1) Batman fails occasionally. In the comics, even when Batman fails, it's a sign of what a super genius badass he is. Anybody remember the storyline where his plans for taking out the Justice League were used against the Justice League? Sure, Batman's paranoia caused the problem... but Batman was also the solution to the problem, and his plan was SO genius that it worked flawlessly even without Batman executing it.2) No more lazy writing. "Because he's Batman" should not be considered adequate reasoning for him to ALWAYS have the answer to everything, all of the time. Other characters should not have to be written as incredibly stupid or incompetent in order to show off Batman's intellect and skills. Batman stealing Green Lantern's ring? Absurd. Superman not using his heat vision to destroy Batman's utility belt since he knows full well the Bat has kryptonite in that thing? Absurd. 3) Highlight his weaknesses occasionally. Let him get his ass kicked. He's (supposedly) just a man... let him be, oh I don't know, JUST A MAN. When he faces super human opponents, he should get his ass kicked. In fact, he should be hospitalized for months if one of these guys so much as sneezes on him. 4) Go back to talking about how crazy he is. Batman DOES have one, albeit rarely exploited, major weakness... he's completely out of his flipping mind, and that 's the only context in which I've found him remotely interesting in the past decade and a half. 5) Have the Bat-family drop the Stepford Wives nonsense. More than just Jason Todd should have jumped ship by now. The guy is a complete douchenozzle. At one point they had written Dick Grayson as having basically realized that he didn't need Bruce Wayne's approval to be a complete person onto himself. What happened to that??? It's also time for Tim Drake to start making the same realization for himself as well. So I just stopped by to say something that's apparently already been said, so there it is. Writing Batman clever at this point is pretty impossible, because he has the answer for everything. He'd have to be depowered for anyone to be able to write for him, and even then, it would take more work and thinking and research... Batman would become a difficult character to write for, it'd be like writing Sherlock Holmes, where you have to actually plan everything out and then hide it and seed it, and then say 'see, answers that you, and the rest of the justice league, wouldn't think of.' I don't think writers are willing to do that, Batman is so easy to write for now... and it is appealing. Why rock the boat and make your job harder? Also, a Bat-mutiny is just genius. I'd love to see it.
|
|
|
Post by Dullahan on Jun 18, 2012 13:02:58 GMT -5
How would you propose it be handled differently? 1) Batman fails occasionally. In the comics, even when Batman fails, it's a sign of what a super genius badass he is. Anybody remember the storyline where his plans for taking out the Justice League were used against the Justice League? Sure, Batman's paranoia caused the problem... but Batman was also the solution to the problem, and his plan was SO genius that it worked flawlessly even without Batman executing it.2) No more lazy writing. "Because he's Batman" should not be considered adequate reasoning for him to ALWAYS have the answer to everything, all of the time. Other characters should not have to be written as incredibly stupid or incompetent in order to show off Batman's intellect and skills. Batman stealing Green Lantern's ring? Absurd. Superman not using his heat vision to destroy Batman's utility belt since he knows full well the Bat has kryptonite in that thing? Absurd. 3) Highlight his weaknesses occasionally. Let him get his ass kicked. He's (supposedly) just a man... let him be, oh I don't know, JUST A MAN. When he faces super human opponents, he should get his ass kicked. In fact, he should be hospitalized for months if one of these guys so much as sneezes on him. 4) Go back to talking about how crazy he is. Batman DOES have one, albeit rarely exploited, major weakness... he's completely out of his flipping mind, and that 's the only context in which I've found him remotely interesting in the past decade and a half. 5) Have the Bat-family drop the Stepford Wives nonsense. More than just Jason Todd should have jumped ship by now. The guy is a complete douchenozzle. At one point they had written Dick Grayson as having basically realized that he didn't need Bruce Wayne's approval to be a complete person onto himself. What happened to that??? It's also time for Tim Drake to start making the same realization for himself as well. I'm ok with all but the crazy part. 1) It removes anything that really makes him interesting. If he's just crazy, then...why should I want him to succeed? I have this problem with some heroes, and it's...I don't care. Because of who they are, I just don't care about what happens to them. It's become the case with Spider Man, as the writers have made it clear nothing good will stick with him. If he becomes crazy...then any chance of me relating to him and any tension around him evaporates, cause I don't care anymore. 2) It makes me think of Frank Miller. And if you want me to read your work, you don't want me thinking of Frank Miller. But that's just me, and we've already established my taste is horrible.
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on Jun 18, 2012 13:16:04 GMT -5
Dude, I don't know how you could possibly look at the bulk of his behavior and not come to the conclusion that he's crazy. Furthermore, how does being crazy make him any less interesting? Frank Castle is pretty obviously crazy, as well, but he's still an interesting character.
Being held back by his own lack of sanity is the only way Batman has been interesting to me at all in years.
|
|
|
Post by Dullahan on Jun 18, 2012 13:29:20 GMT -5
I hate Frank Castle. ;D
And like it's like most crazy characters. No one writes them in a way that's actually interesting. They just use it as an excuse. By itself, it's not bad, I just don't think most writers can handle it well enough, and he'd end up a Designated Hero, a trope I hate above all else.
|
|