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Post by WildKnight on Feb 23, 2009 8:04:39 GMT -5
Well... Technically WK's pitching a fit that I allowed Magneto's Telekinesis to fall under the "Bought with Telepathy" thing. Honestly... I'd say that's the only reason he has Telepathy on his CAD... he doesn't use it, and honestly it's just a flavor thing that if he would just get over his childhood trauma, he'd BE a Telepath. You're missing the point. Magneto doesn't HAVE Telekinesis. He has the ability to move things with pulses and bubbles of magnetic force. I don't care WHY you think Magneto has Telepathy... his Telekiness-like action does not qualify for a reduction. And you DID ignore things he's got on his CAD in the book. His Mastery in the book gives him a Force Blast, and the ability to make working objects (read the Create/Manipulate section of Magnetism).
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Post by Dionon on Feb 23, 2009 8:13:56 GMT -5
I'll go check... let me get back to my computer with the books on them...
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Post by Dionon on Feb 23, 2009 8:17:35 GMT -5
Ok... after review... I'd like to say that anything that's listed in Magneto's Manipulate thing, can be done with that Magnetic Telekinesis...
He doesn't Interface with machinery dude... "take over" is in quotations... meaning he's not interfacing, he's manipulating with Magnetic Force. I'm still right here.
And NO he doesn't have a force blast...
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 23, 2009 8:24:31 GMT -5
Magneto doesn't have a Force Blast on his book CAD? Seriously? *wanders off to cry* At any rate, he SHOULD have one. And yes, Magneto CAN control machines. Its stupid, since the function of a computer has nothing to do with magnetism, but he can.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 23, 2009 8:27:32 GMT -5
Well, in all honesty, like I said before, that would be something for his player to take up as a flavor thing with his GM... as far as what's written, it says he can cause the machines to function. Spending stones in effect for Magnetic Telekinesis can accomplish that. It just takes some creativity on his player's part.
And besides.... he doesn't really have a Force Blast.. well, outside of Marvel vs Capcom. He picks up things and throws them.
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 23, 2009 8:32:51 GMT -5
Really? How do you suspect he can pin entire groups of people to the ground, then?
Theres no way it could be argued thats a simple Telekinetic Attack (unless he had Area Affect on his Mastery of Magnetism, which he doesn't)
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Post by Dionon on Feb 23, 2009 8:38:35 GMT -5
Really? How do you suspect he can pin entire groups of people to the ground, then? Theres no way it could be argued thats a simple Telekinetic Attack (unless he had Area Affect on his Mastery of Magnetism, which he doesn't) Stones of effect... just like it would have to be if it was his Mastery, since he doesn't have Area Effect.... Personally, I'd have charge him stones vs Advantage CL cost.
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 23, 2009 8:44:09 GMT -5
He can't possibly generate enough stones of affect to pin the entire X-Men to the ground, which he has done on multiple occasions.
His Force Blast should be Area Affect vs. Durability to immobilize target (some of them for Masteries are), and that would mimic exactly what he does in the comics.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 23, 2009 8:50:19 GMT -5
While you're right, and I agree.... We should make THAT correction when we make the new CADs for 2.0.... Right now, I have to deal with the mire of crap that was 1.0's CADs... and in 1.0's CADs, he has to pay 2 stones to get Area Effect on his Mastery's Manipulate Option....
Trust me.. Magneto is one of those characters that is so poorly done that I want to cry, but I wanted to show that my system works just as well as the current Mastery System, if not better, and I think I honestly proved my point.
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 23, 2009 9:00:52 GMT -5
I never said it didn't work. I said that it would be more expensive (it is, in some cases), and that some people, myself included, simply prefer the "feel" of the packaged powers.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 23, 2009 9:04:32 GMT -5
True.... It's just a simple solution to de-power the Action, while not de-powering the heroes who use them. Maybe together we could make my system more workable? I mean to me.... the only part of Masteries that can't be directly covered by another action is "Create/Manipulate" everything else can be covered...
BUT... how can I make my option of dissolved Masteries more appealing to Package lovers like yourself.... You know? That came out sounding so wrong, but I think you know what I mean.
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Post by malice on Feb 23, 2009 11:17:52 GMT -5
Trust me.. Magneto is one of those characters that is so poorly done that I want to cry, but I wanted to show that my system works just as well as the current Mastery System, if not better, and I think I honestly proved my point. I think you proved your system is similar in cost, but definitely not just as good. 2 out of 3 of the Masters you presented got screwed on cost, and neither of them was the one that could afford it. You made it harder on the two 40 stone characters (Which are the type of character that gets played most) and easier on the 100+ stone character (Which is absurdly rare for PCs to get to play). ...and you still have players spreading their energy out across multiple actions to achieve effects that old Masteries could do more manageably. You made it so a character with tons of energy (and therefore probably an expensive character) can affordably fuel tons of actions and effects while a typical PC gets overcharged for their Mastery and starves for energy to power it. For the record, the 7 more stones Storm spent and the 8 more Johnny spent are 20% of their character creation stones that anyone on these boards could have put to amazing use. Masteries in 1.0 were actually designed for PCs believe it or not. Characters like the Collector who spent 120 stones on a Mastery were actually wasting most of those stones since half as many could get them a God-powered action. PCs still couldn't get the really powerful Masteries, but really powerful Masteries didn't stand up to actions that are similar in cost anyway.
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 23, 2009 11:22:12 GMT -5
I'm afraid I've got to side with Malice on that one.
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Post by Neros on Feb 23, 2009 13:43:31 GMT -5
Hmm.. Shouldent Storm have area effect in those examples?
But I would also agree that as you currently suggest it, It would be really hard to play a 40 stone master..
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Post by Dionon on Feb 23, 2009 17:50:01 GMT -5
*shrugs* That's why I said, My idea might be flawed, I could use some help refining it into a productive system that mirrors the old, and takes away the brokenness of current Masteries
I still feel that dissembling the Mastery Package is a nesseccary evil, but we should do everything in our power to make it an easy transition.
What if.... We allow "Masters" to get a discount on powers that all work off the same premise... Except for Create/Manipulate. Create/Manipulate would be the power that allows the discounts.... Hell it could be part of the description of Create/Manipulate...
Create/Manipulate Cost = +2 Levels
DESCRIPTION
Allows the creation and base manipulation of a base element of your choice including simple constructs such as cages, barriers and walls. Also allows a -1 CL discount on any Ability, Action or Modifier that is directly tied to this action and element.
OPTIONS - Unlimited Create/Manipulate +4 CL - Accumulate Energy over Time +2 CL - Can only Create OR Manipulate, cannot do Both -1
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