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Post by Hypester on Jan 7, 2010 13:41:53 GMT -5
Odd Question: Magic... any actions?
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Post by takewithfood on Jan 7, 2010 14:13:27 GMT -5
I have worked on a new take on Mastery of Magic, but it isn't done yet. It is very similar to Neros' take, just balanced a little differently, to be honest.
The basic idea is to make it more similar to Telepathy: a single big Action that has a simple basic effect, with many different Options. However, one difference is that anyone with Mastery of Magic can attempt to use ANY option, even if they haven't bought it, but at 1/2 their AN. Since most effects are limited strongly by AN (at least the way I'm writing them), this is a significant drawback. Also, with magic there is always a chance that things will go wrong (which is entirely up to the GM), and its especially likely to backfire when you're imitating an option you don't have.
So, for example, "Magical Blasts" is a +1 CL option that lets you compare stones of attack vs. magical defense. Tina has Mastery of Magic 4 with the Magical Blasts option, while Bob has Mastery of Magic 5, but does not have the Magical Blasts option. Tina can fire a 4 stone blast; against most ordinary opponents (who don't have Magical Defense), she'll deal a full 4 stones of damage, or 2 white. Bob can attempt a magical blast of his own, but since he lacks the specific option, his AN is reduced to 2 (half of 5, rounded down).
The way Magic works is otherwise simplified. There are only a few special rules:
1. Your Mastery of Magic AN cannot exceed your Intelligence. (Considering a special Option for +1 CL that lets you exceed your Int - basically this is for people with a natural gift for magic.)
2. Magical Actions do not require a panel of preparation, but they take place at the end of the Page. Essentially, all normal Actions (like Flight and Close Combat, etc) are resolved in the usual initiative order, and then Magical actions are resolved in initiative order. (Also considering an Option that lets you cast spells more quickly, which ignores this rule).
That's pretty much it. I'm experimenting with the basic cost, but I'm thinking somewhere around AN+3 to AN+5.
The one major alternate rule idea I've been tinkering with is that, instead of halving your AN when attempting to duplicate an Option, you have to pay double the stones. The downside is that this is more expensive in terms of energy, but the upside is that you can achieve the same result if you take 2 panels (sort of the equivalent of spending a panel of prep). For example, if Bob needed to fire a 5 stone blast, he could spend 5 stones in the first page, then 5 more in the second and get the attack off.
I wanted to run a Buffy the Vampire Slayer game to test the magic rules (that world is heavy with the magic) but I decided to go with the New Mutants game. Maybe eventually I'll run a smaller test game..
~TWF
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Post by arch2ngel on Jan 7, 2010 20:01:51 GMT -5
lol I was tinkering with a Magic system of my own. I was thinking more in terms of trying to include all the other magic actions (Sorcery, Summoning, Voodoo, and Asgardian Sorcery).
My idea (still VERY tentative) was to use the Mystic Lore Action as the maximum for magic actions (though I like your idea of a +1CL to allow someone to achieve higher - but I'd restrict it to ONE magic action - you couldn't take the option for Summoning AND Voodoo, for example - and you'd still need at least rank one in mystic lore.)
Sorcery, Summoning, Voodoo, Asgardian Sorcery, and any others created would function like Telepathy, with multiple options that you could select from - each with their own specialties (though there could be some overlap).
Mastery of Magic would be handled similar to Inventing 2.0, where you get so many stones per story, and need to research your mystical library for how to use them during that story. (I haven't read the Inventing 2.0 rules, so I'm not 100% sure how right this is, but you can see where I'm going with it.) Mastery of Magic would NOT be allowed to be higher than the character's Mystical Lore.
I was also thinking of having Mystic Lore be able to see what the other person was casting (functioning like a limited prescience, only useable against magic actions). It would also require that the character's Mystic Lore be higher than the rank of the spell being cast at him (otherwise, it was too complex a spell for the character to understand.) It would only be half effective against schools of magic that the character didn't himself possess (a character with Sorcery could only use half his Mystic Lore rank against an opponent using Voodoo.) If the character was successful in learning what spell was being cast, he could change what he was doing with one of his magic actions (Sorcery was going to be a sleep spell, but now the character's going to use it for a shield spell), or the character could move stones to Mastery of Magic. If the character spent an equal or greater number of stones into Mastery of Magic as his opponent had into the magic action they were taking, the spell is cancelled.
I'd also like to make a Magic Blast as a separate magic action (akin to how force blast was removed from mastery of elements in 2.0), but give it a discount from sorcery or asgardian sorcery.
Anyway, I'm going to work on this some more before posting it to the 2.0 forum, but I figured I'd mention it here, since you were talking about something similar...
Oh! I almost forgot, I was also going to allow options to be bought (or NEW magic actions to be purchased) for up to half the lines of experience it would normally cost, based on a character's Mystical Lore skill. Not sure exactly how I planned to set up this mechanic, but I wanted to include it as a "he was researching a new spell" kinda thing. (Note: this would NOT let him increase the rank of any magic action higher - that would have the normal cost - just to research new spells and new ways to cast spells. So he could get a Voodoo of 1 at half cost, but couldn't raise the Voodoo to 2 for half cost - though he could add options to Voodoo for half cost.)
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Post by arch2ngel on Jan 7, 2010 20:14:28 GMT -5
One last note (I swear!): I liked the way I was setting it up (especially with your option of a +1CL to not be restricted by Mystic Lore for one magic action), as it gives a great versatility to magic characters, but also gives them some structure.
A character could be a a true master of magic (by having a high mystic lore and mastery of magic, along with one or more other magic actions), but they'll probably have lower ranks in it. Or they could have a much higher rank, but ONLY know one type of magic action (say, Summoning), and wouldn't be able to counter another magic character's spells (because they don't have very high mystic lore - the minimum of 1 - and/or any mastery of magic.)
It also gave a reason for the different magic actions: you can get different options, and you don't have to put all your eggs in one basket. (As, with too many options, an action can get pretty darn expensive!) This lets you split up the cost a bit between actions, but only if the options you want to take are under another action!
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Post by takewithfood on Jan 10, 2010 18:20:52 GMT -5
By the way, I'm probably going to try to streamline the leaping rules, and making it just so that Difficulty and Resistance are both equal to the difficulty of the jump. Strength will still be used to overcome Difficulty, with Acrobatics (or just Strength or just Agility) to overcome resistance. It's just simpler that way and less expensive.
Leaper will have to change as a result. Which reminds me, I'd like to make an adjustment to the generic modifier, too, but I'll get to that later. Too busy right now!
~TWF
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Post by Neros on Jul 2, 2010 2:24:36 GMT -5
So, yesterday I got started on a MURPG game with some of my friends, using the 2.0 rules we have so far, and some questions came up (and just a note, they are new to MURPG) FORCE FIELD:Spending vs Losing Stones There is abit of a silly aspect which have been missed (or its a part of the power which which I feel like should be changed).. To use a force field, all you have to do is place one stone into the power, and you will have you're whole energy pool as defense, since its first when a attack go over double the Action Number.. And It dosn't make that much of a difference if you spend 6 stones into Force Field or if they are taken from you're pool because of damage.. Im gona use the example with the Sue Richard and Hulk, just where she spend 1 stone instead: Sue Storm is trying to hold off a rampaging Hulk; she has a Force Field AN of 9, an Energy Pool of 6, and is at full energy (30 stones in her Pool). Not sure what to expect, she cautiously puts 1 stone into her Force Field and shifts them to defense. The Hulk slams a massive fist down on her force field for a total of 13 stones of attack. Ordinarily, such an attack would exceed her defense by 12 stones, resulting in 4 white stones of damage; however, Sue's Force Field can absorb up to 18 stones of punishment from a single attack. Those extra 12 stones of attack come out of her Energy Pool instead of her health. Her Force Field has kept her safe for this Page, but if this keeps up she'll run out of energy fast!So no matter how many stones she would have spend, she would still lose them (either because she spend them herself, or because of damage) and either way, the result would be the same.. Moving stuff with force Field:The endless question which we also didn't get an answer to in the old MURPG.. Can you move stuff around you have in you're force field and can it stay in midair? Buying Options for OptionsSo one player buys the Offensive Force Field, but he wants his offensive part to have 2xDamage and Area effect, but does he then just pay for these as normal? Or is there some kind of discount for only wanting it to be part of the power? Offensive Force Field:Why can't it be combined with Range Combat when it can be combined with Close Combat? MASTERY OF ELEMENT:Are there any advantages to the various of elements like in the Old MURPG? Like maintaining a wind for 1r, incase people in ice/stone/ect.. I think there was more, but I might have forgotten them
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 2, 2010 3:04:42 GMT -5
FORCE FIELD:Spending vs Losing Stones There is abit of a silly aspect which have been missed (or its a part of the power which which I feel like should be changed).. To use a force field, all you have to do is place one stone into the power, and you will have you're whole energy pool as defense, since its first when a attack go over double the Action Number.. And It dosn't make that much of a difference if you spend 6 stones into Force Field or if they are taken from you're pool because of damage.. Im gona use the example with the Sue Richard and Hulk, just where she spend 1 stone instead: Sue Storm is trying to hold off a rampaging Hulk; she has a Force Field AN of 9, an Energy Pool of 6, and is at full energy (30 stones in her Pool). Not sure what to expect, she cautiously puts 1 stone into her Force Field and shifts them to defense. The Hulk slams a massive fist down on her force field for a total of 13 stones of attack. Ordinarily, such an attack would exceed her defense by 12 stones, resulting in 4 white stones of damage; however, Sue's Force Field can absorb up to 18 stones of punishment from a single attack. Those extra 12 stones of attack come out of her Energy Pool instead of her health. Her Force Field has kept her safe for this Page, but if this keeps up she'll run out of energy fast!So no matter how many stones she would have spend, she would still lose them (either because she spend them herself, or because of damage) and either way, the result would be the same.. This is pretty much true when up against a single opponent. All you need to do is toss in 1 stone, and your FF will take care of the rest (at least, up to it's maximum ability). However, against multiple people you'll want to bid a higher defense. Let's say you have AN 5 and you put in only 1 stone, and four people attack you for 6 stones of attack each. You would lose an additional 15 stones of energy. And that sucks. Also, it matters in the case of Efficient force fields and Unlimited Power, as well as modifiers, which affect the number of stones you place in your box, not your AN. It's tricky, I know, but I haven't thought of a more fluid way to handle it. For now, though, I think it works just fine. I'd say that this is up to the GM. I typically rule that no, you can't move your FFs around. They're static. If you have the constructs option, you can make stairs or slides to support/direct people, but that is about it. It works really well with Telekinesis, though. You can flavour your telekinesis to be like picking things up with a field of force and moving it around. Arguably you can shove people with the Offensive Force Field option, but in the form of an attack. Probably not recommended. I'd leave that up to the GM. Uhm, no discount, so it isn't the most efficient attack. A GM could easily overrule this, though, offering x2 Damage at +1 CL and AoE at maybe +2 CL. Not by default, I don't think, but depending on the situation, sure. If it's something the player plans on doing a lot/all the time (like Armor), then it's safest to buy the "combines with" advantage. I have an NPC in my New Mutants game who wants to eventually learn how to combine his force fields with Ranged Combat to basically fire little orbs of force at great speeds. Another NPC has a personal force field that is so sharp it is basically 2D. For him I just bought a modifier for Close Combat with a high Material Class, on the condition that it only works when he has at least 1 stone in Force Field. So, there are different ways to play around with it. Only what you add to them. You could buy Entangle instead of Force Blast to represent an ice beam that just coats people in ice without harming them (though in the real world that would hurt like a b*tch, for some reason people in comics usually come back from being encased in a block of ice just fine ). There's always wiggle room for GMs to trade-off some details, but I really hate putting those in stone. How one person manipulates the wind should be different from another wind-master's method. It's more fun that way. I guess suggestions are fine, but I think people are creative enough to come up with their own stuff. Another example from my game: there is an NPC student with a Mastery of Matter, which sounds really broad. I paid for a CL of Scope, and jotted down notes that the only thing he can do is transmute matter into different elements temporarily, one element at a time. Non-living matter only, too. So, he could turn his clothes into iron or turn a window into a lead sheet. If he's clever, he can turn a power cable or a computer circuit into a non-conductive material such as carbon, effectively shutting it off. Yes, he can turn lead to gold. ^__^ Currently, he can't change an object's state (solid to liquid, liquid to gas, etc) but with more Scope, he'll be able to turn a wall into mercury or something of that sort. But anyway, that's just one way to handle something as broad as a Mastery of Matter. There is a ton of wiggle room for players and GMs to play around with, and they'll just have to come up with rules and costs themselves. Hope that answers your questions! ~TWF
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Post by Neros on Jul 2, 2010 6:58:35 GMT -5
I suppose with Force Field, we could change the rule so that the max amount of extra damage you can absorb is just equal to your AN. So, if you have AN 5 and you only put in 1 stone, you can absorb an extra 5, not an extra 9. Weakens it considerably, but makes it less "weird".
The way I think of it, though, is that putting up a force field isn't that hard.. keeping it from shattering when someone shoots a rocket at it is.
And people are always going to make assumptions. I'll try to work some wording in about the force fields being static, but that's really just my interpretation. I try not to account for every possible situation because that would turn a fairly simple rulebook into a novel. ^__^
Again, this is up to the GM and the player. If a discount is warranted, great. But it's hard to write a rule that can account for all different situations. I'd like to give people credit that they can sort these things out.
I haven't tested the current version/wording of Mastery enough to want to make changes, but I have a few in mind. But anyway, yeah, I don't see why Masteries should do what every other Action can do and do it better just because.. I don't even know what the original excuse was.
In 1.0, there was absolutely no point in buying a regular force blast when you could buy a Mastery with a force blast option that gave you free advantages (sometimes free area of effect!), AND you can create/manipulate AND you get a discount on Flight AND you have the option of later buying immunity and other neat advantages.. holy crap, why? And when you're raising essentially half your entire CAD for 10 LOEs a pop, you quickly start to outpace your teammates. (Then the power level gets adjusted to your power level, and everyone else suddenly sucks no matter what.)
Anyway, Masteries are tough to handle. Put together any gaming group and you'll invariably find one wise-ass player who tries to find short-cuts to everything with their silly mastery:
"I have Mastery of Fire, right?" "Yes." "So, I can create fires, right?" "Yes." "Anywhere I want?" "Well, basically, y-" "I create a fire INSIDE THE BAD GUY'S BRAIN." "No." "WHY NOT YOU SAID WAH WAH WAH WHERE IS MY BALL I AM GOING HOME."
I feel that GMs should work with players at character creation to establish some things that they can and can't do with their mastery - preferably built around the concept of what their mastery does, and how. Another example featuring an NPC of mine: this one kid has a Mastery of Frictional Forces. His principle ability is that he can throw things with a negative coefficient of friction (take that, physics!), essentially accelerating anything he throws to mach speeds (his Mastery combines with Ranged Combat, +1 CL). He can also increase friction in the air, effectively creating a force field (has a weak force field Action with the stipulation that it only affects objects with mass, not most energy attacks). He can use his mastery itself to make the ground slippery (in most cases, stones vs Agility to trip people up around him, paying stones for area) and make climbing easier (substitute his Mastery for Strength or Agility when climbing). I had him pay +1 scope.
Another NPC has a Mastery of Sonics. She has a deafening shout (force blast with AoE, but she has limited control - every time she even tries to whisper it comes out as a shout at least as powerful as her recovery), and can use her mastery to create pockets of silence (stones for area and duration; subtract her AN from Animal Senses or other heightened senses used to hear), and she can heighten her own hearing by funneling sound towards herself (combines with Int when trying to listen). She paid +1 scope, too.
That's currently how I use it. There are other examples, too, but those are the most relevant ones.
The idea I'm toying with is allowing players to choose "specialties" for their Masteries. Basically, for each point of AN, they can delineate one type of "use" of their mastery that they are familiar with, such as making the ground slippery or creating silence, and they can do those things without penalty. They can do just about anything else than can think of, but the GM gets to levy a sit mod of whatever size they feel is right, depending on how easy or difficult the task is.
The rules for specialties have to be hammered out in advance, and if some are particularly useful, they may come at the cost of a CL or two of "scope". Once that's paid for, though, it's game on.
~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 2, 2010 8:29:42 GMT -5
Ah crap, sorry. I was sleepy and I edited your post instead of quoting it. lol Sorry! I got 1 hour of sleep last night.
~TWF
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Post by Neros on Jul 3, 2010 6:03:09 GMT -5
Lool! Bad Takewithfood.. Bad.. Go and get some rest XP Force FieldIm not that much against keeping it as it is.. It is powerful against a single opponent, but it can get really costly against multiple attacks if you don't spend enough stones, which to some extend, balances it out for me.. But halving the amount of energy you can spend to negate extra damage dosn't seem like a bad idea, but dosn't it then make it more like all other Actions you can use to defense? I mean, then it won't be better than Telekinesis, Mastery of Element or any other.. I think that the Force Field should be "better" at protecting than others (even though it costs).. I know it has area effect and Material Class 3, but still.. Totally agree and I don't mind that you can do it, especailly now when its cleared that its par attack you have to lose energy Mastery of ElementHehe.. I've had something like that once aswel But here is and example of what we did in a test game to let the players get the feel of how to play the game: One Player has Mastery of the Four Elements (I know its from the old book, but paying +3 for it seemed fair), and there was this big robot which wanted to hurt them.. It was using Jetboosters in its feet to fly (AN 4) and the player wanted to create a wind around it to start drawing it down to the ground (She spend 5 stones to do this).. So I decided that she started to pull it toward the ground (not right away though)...Now, looking back at it, that would defiantly not have worked, since that would have been Telekinesis.. It feels like you don't really can do that much with a mastery..... It dosn't feel that... Mastery.. Been thinking about increasing the cost to allow you to simulate other actions which could fit with you're element and maybe a weak type of telekinesis, but not sure how it would work.. Need to think abit about it... Especially since that was one of the problems with masteries in the old, that it could go in and take any role/action for a very cheap cost..
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 3, 2010 10:15:49 GMT -5
Force FieldIm not that much against keeping it as it is.. It is powerful against a single opponent, but it can get really costly against multiple attacks if you don't spend enough stones, which to some extend, balances it out for me.. But halving the amount of energy you can spend to negate extra damage dosn't seem like a bad idea, but dosn't it then make it more like all other Actions you can use to defense? I mean, then it won't be better than Telekinesis, Mastery of Element or any other.. I think that the Force Field should be "better" at protecting than others (even though it costs).. I know it has area effect and Material Class 3, but still.. Heh, I don't really know what you're trying to say here. Sounds like you're having a conversation with yourself. ^__^ I didn't say anything about halving the number of extra stones a FF will block. I said that one way you could change the Action is to make it so that, aside from stones you actually shift to defense, your FF will also block extra stones of damage up to your AN. So, if you have AN 5, it can block an additional 5 stones from each attack, in addition to whatever you shift. This is different from the current version. In the current version, the FF simply blocks a total number of stones per round up to x2 your AN. So, if you only put in 1 stone, it can still block up to 9 more (AN 5 x2 = 10 stones blocked total). Anyway, not important. I don't like that change anyway. ^__^ I think the Action is fine as it is. It is superior to any other Action when it comes to defense, but you still pay for what you get. Oh, and also, the FF does not have a material class by default, just to be clear. The option to have a Material Class 3 FF is, well, an option only. If you have a Class 3 FF, it can be penetrated by Class 4 attacks, which is bad. Normal shifted stones can't be penetrated this way. You're taking the action waay too literally. Masteries have such varied use that no one in their right mind will try to write out everything you could possibly do with them in every possible situation. Thus, the description just says that you can move and shape your element. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to create a strong gust of wind with a Mastery, but the GM will have to decide on the spot what it does. In the case of blowing someone around who is flying, I would just add whatever the Master spends to the Flying character's resistance. So, for example, if they spend 5 stones to make a 5 stone gust of wind, the flying character has to spend 6 stones just to stay airborne. Chances are that the flying character will be grounded. If they can only put, say, 3 stones into Flight, then maybe they'll crash and take some stones of damage. Again, it's all up to the GM and what makes sense. That is what good GMing is about. Don't let the name fool you. Technically, it should really be renamed "Manipulate Element", as Mastery implies too much. You'll drive yourself mad. lol I tried doing this too, but there are simply too many different elements, methods, theories, situations and what-have-you. I think I really will write up a version that involves specialties. Maybe that will encourage people to get creative with what they can do, while not putting as much pressure on GMs to come up with something on the spot. ~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 3, 2010 20:40:24 GMT -5
As promised, the alternate version of Mastery of Elements. I think I actually DO like this better:
[/b][/size] This Action allows you to manipulate and control a specific element, such as fire, wind, radiation, or magnetism (choose one from the list of elements on page 43 of the core rule book, or work with your GM to invent a new one). The limits of what you can accomplish with a mastery are defined only by your AN, your creativity, and the leniency of your GM.
To begin with, you may record one "specialty" per point of AN. Each specialty should represent one type of task that your character can comfortably carry out with their mastery, such as creating a stiff gust of wind to push back opponents, lifting heavy objects with magnetism, or turning stone into molten clay with a mastery of earth. Work with your GM to establish a game mechanic for the type of task in which you have specialized; from then on, you can perform that task without penalty.
Some tasks may be more powerful or useful than others, especially if they emulate an existing Action, such as Telekinesis or Entangle. In these cases, you may need to pay additional Cost Levels for these tasks; consider the base cost of a similar Action as a good guideline and come to an agreement with your GM.
You can attempt just about any feat with your mastery, but without a specialization, the GM may impose a situational penalty to represent unfamiliarity with that type of task. Large penalties should be applied when a player attempts something potentially game-breaking, such as using a Mastery of Water to boil someone's blood, or a using Mastery of Fire to create flames inside someone's head. For the sake of balance, the GM should be prepared to say "no".
Common tasks may include:
* Create Element: Create a mass (constult the Weight row on the D&R chart for solid or dense elements) or volume (consult the Area row on the D&R chart for gaseous or energy-based elements) of your element. It remains for only a single Page, but you can extend it's duration by paying additional stones along the Duration row of the D&R chart. If instead you pay additional cost levels (typically +1 CL, or possibly more for rare elements), material you create is permanent.
* Move Element: Push or pull a mass (constult the Weight row on the D&R chart for solid or dense elements) or volume (consult the Area row on the D&R chart for gaseous or energy-based elements) of your element. Functions within a default range of 2 (30 yards); pay additional stones for additional range. This is likely to be the most basic and common task.
* Shape Element: Craft your element into basic shapes and forms. Consult the Weight or Area row of the D&R chart for costs relative to mass and volume (as with Create Element, above); you may need to pay additional stones or combine with an appropriate Action to craft complex items. If you can also create your element, you can pay an additional cost level for the ability to shape your element for free as you create it.
* Basic Attack: You can use your Mastery as an attack by exposing opponents to your element in one way or another. Stones of effect are compared to defense normally. Comes with a default range of 2; you can spend additional stones to increase the Range.
* Barrier: You can create a wall out of your element. Physical, tangible walls have a Hardness and a Resistance equal to stones of effect; walls made out of less tangible substances have no Hardness, but instead deal an attack equal to your stones of effect to anyone and anything foolish enough to try to pass through it. These barriers have an area of 2 on the Area row of the D&R chart, and last for one Page by default; you can pay additional stones of effect for a larger area or greater duration. For +1 CL, your barriers are permanent.
* Hinder: Stones of effect are added to the resistance of any movement into a default Area of 2, or count as free stones of movement out of the area. Pay additonal stones for a greater area. A master of Wind or Air might blast opponents with a stiff gust of wind; a master of water might do something similar with waves, or with currents if their targets are under water; a mastery of gravitation might ramp up effective gravity in the area, pinning opponents to the ground; a master of frictional forces might make the ground slippery and cut air resistance to next to nothing.
* Entangle: Wrap, cover, or otherwise bind your opponent with your element. This functions just like the Entangle Action, and costs +2 CL.
* Communicate with Element: You have the ability to "speak" to your element - this obviously works best with things that can feasibly communicate back, such as plants, animals, the dead, microscopic life, etc.
* Move Anything: Better than just the Move Element task - this functions just like Telekinesis, as long as your element is present. Costs +2 CL.
Get creative with your specialty tasks, and try to be resourceful during gameplay, too. Most importantly, however, be cooperative with your GM and remember that the GM's word is final.
Notes: The "Transform Into Element" option is removed; instead, see the Transform Self Challenge.
Having a Mastery does not grant you a discount to Flight; however, it will likely justify the "fits with main power" discount.[/quote]
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Post by Neros on Jul 5, 2010 8:43:40 GMT -5
Heh, I don't really know what you're trying to say here. Sounds like you're having a conversation with yourself. ^__^ I am, so stay out of it.. Its between me and myself...... XP Anyway, not important. I don't like that change anyway. ^__^ I think the Action is fine as it is. It is superior to any other Action when it comes to defense, but you still pay for what you get. Yea, and as I said, Force Field needs that, because its meant to be superior to most other actions when it comes to defense.. Or I think it should Oh, and also, the FF does not have a material class by default, just to be clear. The option to have a Material Class 3 FF is, well, an option only. If you have a Class 3 FF, it can be penetrated by Class 4 attacks, which is bad. Normal shifted stones can't be penetrated this way. Aaaah.. So in a sense, it does have a Material Class, since nothing can negate it (unless the GM create a force field negating power ) And I think some things can negate shifted defense.. Like a bomb vs Close Combat O.o Mastery of ElementNot sure if I want to comment on both you're posts.. Might make my own post a idi bidi tad long You're taking the action waay too literally. Masteries have such varied use that no one in their right mind will try to write out everything you could possibly do with them in every possible situation. Thus, the description just says that you can move and shape your element. I would.. And I know I am definatly right in my mind...... *Picks up toilet plunge" Daaaaaargh!! But I dont't want a mile long list of things you can and can't do.. I just want examples so I have something to make calls from.. That was one of the things I hated about the old version, there where so many things which didn't have examples, so there where so many ways you could understand/read them.. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to create a strong gust of wind with a Mastery, but the GM will have to decide on the spot what it does. In the case of blowing someone around who is flying, I would just add whatever the Master spends to the Flying character's resistance. So, for example, if they spend 5 stones to make a 5 stone gust of wind, the flying character has to spend 6 stones just to stay airborne. Chances are that the flying character will be grounded. If they can only put, say, 3 stones into Flight, then maybe they'll crash and take some stones of damage. Again, it's all up to the GM and what makes sense. That is what good GMing is about. What she technically did, was use Telekinesis.. But I think that because she was trying to force him down, she would also have gravity on her side.. But if she wanted to lift them of the the ground, push them over the ledge of something, that would require telekinesis.. Revised Mastery of ElementI like it much better.. Proberbly because there is examples .. * Create Element: Create a mass (constult the Weight row on the D&R chart for solid or dense elements) or volume (consult the Area row on the D&R chart for gaseous or energy-based elements) of your element. It remains for only a single Page, but you can extend it's duration by paying additional stones along the Duration row of the D&R chart. If instead you pay additional cost levels (typically +1 CL, or possibly more for rare elements), material you create is permanent. * Sounds good, so Create element is taken out as and option? * And does this mean taht rock, earth, metal and other hard materials, will revert back to their original shape after 1 turn unless extra stones are spend? * Does the basic Create element let you create it out of nothing (like the old option did)? * Move Element: Push or pull a mass (constult the Weight row on the D&R chart for solid or dense elements) or volume (consult the Area row on the D&R chart for gaseous or energy-based elements) of your element. Functions within a default range of 2 (30 yards); pay additional stones for additional range. This is likely to be the most basic and common task. Yaaay, examples .. Great idea to use weight for hard, solid mass, and area for more..... Mass-less elements If you can also create your element, you can pay an additional cost level for the ability to shape your element for free as you create it. * So am I to assume that you have to create something first (if its not there), to shape it? Like if you had AN 6, you could spend 3 stones to create and another 3 stones to shape the same panel? * Basic Attack: You can use your Mastery as an attack by exposing opponents to your element in one way or another. Stones of effect are compared to defense normally. Comes with a default range of 2; you can spend additional stones to increase the Range. * Does the same rule above apply here? If you wish to use you're element as and attack and the element isn't there, you must first create it? * Does this mean that you don't have to buy a Force Blast aswel? * Barrier: You can create a wall out of your element. Physical, tangible walls have a Hardness and a Resistance equal to stones of effect; walls made out of less tangible substances have no Hardness, but instead deal an attack equal to your stones of effect to anyone and anything foolish enough to try to pass through it. These barriers have an area of 2 on the Area row of the D&R chart, and last for one Page by default; you can pay additional stones of effect for a larger area or greater duration. For +1 CL, your barriers are permanent. * Have you dropped the old 1r stone per panel to maintain a barrier completly? * Can you create a, lets say with AN 6, a 3 stone effect and 3 stone duration barrier, and then create another one? aka, are you also limited to the number of barriers you can create by you're Action Number? * Hinder: Stones of effect are added to the resistance of any movement into a default Area of 2, or count as free stones of movement out of the area. Pay additonal stones for a greater area. A master of Wind or Air might blast opponents with a stiff gust of wind; a master of water might do something similar with waves, or with currents if their targets are under water; a mastery of gravitation might ramp up effective gravity in the area, pinning opponents to the ground; a master of frictional forces might make the ground slippery and cut air resistance to next to nothing. This one is cute.. I like it * Entangle: Wrap, cover, or otherwise bind your opponent with your element. This functions just like the Entangle Action, and costs +2 CL. * Move Anything: Better than just the Move Element task - this functions just like Telekinesis, as long as your element is present. Costs +2 CL. So having a Master of an Element from the core Marverlverse (and Avatar: Last Airbender), will have these two options.. Thats abit expensive.. But then again, it should, but it quickly becomes cheaper to buy the actions by themselves.. * Question: How do we handled combined actions in 2.0? * Communicate with Element: You have the ability to "speak" to your element - this obviously works best with things that can feasibly communicate back, such as plants, animals, the dead, microscopic life, etc. I always thought it was silly it costs a whole Costlevel to be able to communicate with and element.. I think Translation (or what it was called) is cheaper than 5w stones So I like it.. But most masteries are 5+ so why shouln't you take this "Just because.."? FORCE BLASTJust thought about something for Force Blast: Would you have to pay +1 CL for every other element you have for a force blast like in the old system, or won't that be necesary since you don't any free or special effect from having a specific element?
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 5, 2010 10:34:47 GMT -5
* Sounds good, so Create element is taken out as and option? * And does this mean taht rock, earth, metal and other hard materials, will revert back to their original shape after 1 turn unless extra stones are spend? * Does the basic Create element let you create it out of nothing (like the old option did)? The idea here is basically that you can pull some of your element out of thin air. That's about it. Pyro couldn't do this, for example: he had to have a source of fire on hand, but he could shape and manipulate it better than most. And yes, unless you pay an additional cost level (or spend extra stones of effect on duration), the element you create just disappears after a page. A fire goes out, water evaporates or thins out, radioactivity expires, etc. Whatever. The ability to permanently create some substances is potentially broken: imagine a Mastery of Metal or something. FREE GOLD. Yeah, that's pretty much it. OR, you could create up to 6 stones in one Page, then shape it on the next. However, if you pay extra, you can create 6 stones and have it basically appear in the shape that you want. Handy, if you are in a hurry. This is regarding the attack trick. You don't have to be able to create your element to make an attack, but if you can't create, you need to find some of your element lying around. So, if you have a Mastery of Water and you aren't able to create any/enough, you could turn on a faucet or break a pipe to "find" some water - or run towards the nearest fountain, lake, or river, and hope your opponent is dumb enough to follow you. Remember, you can attempt just about any trick even if you haven't chosen it as a specialty. So, even if you haven't chosen "create element", you can attempt to conjure some of your element. It's just that the GM is likely to impose some sort of penalty (at least 1 or 2 stones, possibly more depending on the situation - don't try to conjure fire while under water or air in space, etc). [quote* Have you dropped the old 1r stone per panel to maintain a barrier completly? * Can you create a, lets say with AN 6, a 3 stone effect and 3 stone duration barrier, and then create another one? aka, are you also limited to the number of barriers you can create by you're Action Number?[/quote] Yeah, I dropped the 1r per panel upkeep cost. Characters who make walls tend to make them then leave 'em and turn their attention elsewhere, unlike a force field or something that tends to require constant concentration. And yes, your example is correct, though technically duration 1 is free, so adding 3 stones of duration gives you Duration 4, which on the D&R chart is "a few hours". In most fights, all you need is Duration 2, which is 10 pages. Few fights last that long - chances are that it'll be destroyed before it expires. I can definitely see earth and waterbenders buying the Entangle option. The Dai Lee in particular made good use of earthbending to handcuff people, and waterbenders were good at trapping people in ice. A really good airbender might buy the telekinesis option, but even Aang was never really that deft and tended mostly to just shove people. He could probably come up with a regular specialty (regular specialty.. oxymoron, but you get the point) for shoving things. Maybe just stones vs weight, with "damage" representing distance knocked back, using the Leaping row. Assuming an average adult is weight 2, a 6 stone attack would push someone back 50 feet. If the victim is pushed into or off something, he might take a little damage; very situational, though. For a CL or two, a victim pushed at least 25 feet is also knocked down hard enough that they only get 1 action instead of 2 on their next panel. *shrug* It's fun to play around with mechanics. I hate combining actions into one AN, honestly. It's messy when it comes to spending LoEs, and the tradeoff always feels at least a little one-sided (towards the player's favour). That said, I don't really see the need to change the rule, as it's pretty situational and GMs can always just say "no" if they don't like what the player came up with. Flavour, mostly. But yeah, thinking about it now, assuming that most masters choose at least AN 5, it's actually hard to come up with 5 specialties. I'll have to test it to see what people come up with. Honestly, though, there are a lot of elements for which this trick just doesn't fit. How do you ask radiation a question? ^__^ It should really only fit for a small number of characters. Short answer: yes. There are still advantages to having more than one element - the main one being that you don't get totally hosed when you come across someone immune to your element. "I am Inferno! Your fire blasts won't hurt me! MWAH HA HA HA!" "Damn. Well, good thing I also do electricity blasts." "HA HA wait, what? GAAAAAAAAAAAAH CRAP!" "Hee hee. Best cost level ever." "AAAAAH! DON'T TASE ME BRO! AAAAH!" ~TWF
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Post by Neros on Jul 6, 2010 2:32:26 GMT -5
And yes, unless you pay an additional cost level (or spend extra stones of effect on duration), the element you create just disappears after a page. A fire goes out, water evaporates or thins out, radioactivity expires, etc. Whatever. The ability to permanently create some substances is potentially broken: imagine a Mastery of Metal or something. FREE GOLD. * And what about earth, stone, metal and other hard materials? Do they disperse aswel? * And when manipulating, does what you manipulated just revert back to its original shape? He could probably come up with a regular specialty (regular specialty.. oxymoron, but you get the point) for shoving things. Maybe just stones vs weight, with "damage" representing distance knocked back, using the Leaping row. Assuming an average adult is weight 2, a 6 stone attack would push someone back 50 feet. If the victim is pushed into or off something, he might take a little damage; very situational, though. For a CL or two, a victim pushed at least 25 feet is also knocked down hard enough that they only get 1 action instead of 2 on their next panel. *shrug* It's fun to play around with mechanics. Well, I imagened that the Knockback rules worked like this.. Stones of attack vs Weight of the object.. But knocking/pushing people around could be a speciality.. Its not completly move things around with you're element since it lacks finesse but have abit more power.. How do you ask radiation a question? ^__^ It should really only fit for a small number of characters. That one is easy.. Just ask it as if you would ask fire.. Fire and Radiation have more or less the same personality, however radiation can sometimes be a brat to talk to, so be prepared for some back talking.... The only time I can see this be and option, is when the characters powers are mystic in some way.. But hey, in Marvel, everything is more or less possible.. Short answer: yes. There are still advantages to having more than one element - the main one being that you don't get totally hosed when you come across someone immune to your element. "I am Inferno! Your fire blasts won't hurt me! MWAH HA HA HA!" "Damn. Well, good thing I also do electricity blasts." "HA HA wait, what? GAAAAAAAAAAAAH CRAP!" "Hee hee. Best cost level ever." "AAAAAH! DON'T TASE ME BRO! AAAAH!" Hehe.. Yea, there can still be advantages.. So you still think that +1 CL is good for extra elements for a Force Blast? Attack TrickHmm.. Lets say you have the attack trick and fire element.. There is a fire 30 yards away.. You then wish to use the fire to attack an enemy thats 30 yards away from the fire source... Can you do this with out spending stones since the fire attack is springing fourth from the fire source and not you?
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